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| Hi, This is a bit long and complicated. My Great, Great Grandfather was born Daniel Greenhill SCOTT on 7th August, 1851 at 2 Ridgeway Street in the sub-district of Ancoats Manchester in the County of Lancaster to William SCOTT, (engineer) and Jannet Scott, neeSMITH. I can find nothing of him or his family in England anywhere. They are not on any census or anything else I have looked at on the internet. Family story goes that he and his brother were merchant mariners and came on a ship to Australia, but it couldn't land so they jumped ship when it was near Geelong, then he and his brother had an argument and he went to New South Wales, married, had children and then finally moved to Queensland. His family knew him as David Greenhill Scot, he was married as that, died as that, even had sons named after him as that. We don't know why he changed his name, or took on a different name. But I know all the other information here in Australia,as his wife and children, just trying to find out about anything in England. Where could I go to find out about his family if they are not on any census records? I have been "stuck" on this part of my family history for about 12 years, and just found his birth certificate last year, then to have seemed to hit a roadblock again. Could anyone tell me where I could find some more information? Thanks. | |
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Terri - Looking through some of the family research sites, the Christian name Mungo seems to be most common in Scotland. Marian |
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Hi Terri I think this is him below. Marian  | | | |
Event(s): | | Birth: | | 17 AUG 1843 | Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland | | | Christening: | | Death: | | Burial: | |
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Terri - Here are Mungo's parents and their children. Marian Father: David Roger, Mother: Janet West 1. DAVID ROGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 12 DEC 1841 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland
2. WILLIAM WEST ROGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 02 APR 1854 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland
3. BETSY ROGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 12 MAR 1852 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland
4. JOHN ROGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 20 JUN 1861 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland
5. JOHANNAH ROGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 23 JAN 1846 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland
6. MUNGO ROGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 17 AUG 1843 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland
7. ISABELLA ROGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 19 APR 1849 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland
8. JAMES ROGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 25 FEB 1858 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland
9. JESSIE ROGER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 05 SEP 1850 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland
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| | From:  stootee | Sent: 7/2/2008 7:22 AM |
Hi Marian,
Thanks heaps AGAIN.
I've been looking for Daniel born 1853 on a census with his family but haven't found Janet and children since the 1851 census, except for Isabella and her family after she was married. I even looked in Kensington, and London and Kent, where we found some of Isabella's family and marriages, but still nothing. They seem to have vanished from 1851, but on Daniel's birth certificate he was born at 2 Ridgeway street in Manchester, where they were living in 1851. I guess I just wanted to see him with his family living somewhere there. Do you know where else I can look?
Regards,
Terri. |
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Terri - There is nowhere else really that you will find them, other than searching the censuses again. I know how frustrating it can be, and that you want to find them all together. Don't give up, and I will keep looking for you also just in case. Marian |
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Terri - Do you think this could be David/Daniel, now age 28 and married? 1881 census Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
David SCOTT Head M Male 28 Manchester, Lancashire, England Iron Turner born c1853
Hanna SCOTT Wife Female 27 Manchester, Lancashire, England
David SCOTT Son Male 1 Manchester, Lancashire, England
Mary J. SCOTT Daur Female 7 Manchester, Lancashire, England Scholar
Jane MONTGOMERY Serv Female 13 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Servant Domestic Also, I found this marriage: Marriages Mar 1873
Lillford Hannah Manchester 8d 579
SCOTT David Manchester 8d 579 Marian |
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| | | From: stootee | Sent: 7/2/2008 10:41 PM |
Hi Marian,
No that is not him. He was married in Australia on 1 Dec 1873. So that couldn't be him in 1881. I will keep trying, maybe they moved somewhere else. Do you think Janet may have gone back to Scotland and taken some of the children with her?
Thanks,
Terri. |
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Hi Terri Sorry I forgot he married in Australia. Depending on the year he emigrated (do you know this?), the only English or Scottish censuses he could be found on would be the 1861 and 1871. I will check out Scotland for 1861 and await hearing from you. Marian |
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| | | From: stootee | Sent: 7/3/2008 12:00 PM |
Hi Marian,
I don't know what year he came to Australia. Family story goes that he and a brother were mariners and the ship couldn't dock at Geelong because of a sand-bar, so they jumped ship and swam in. Then he and his brother had an argument, and David/Daniel left and went to New South Wales.
This is one of the reasons I'm stuck, as I have no idea what year he came here or what ship was around at the time. I thought he should be on a 1861 census as he would have been 8 years old.(or there abouts) And from the 1881 census with the record of Janet's oldest daughter, Isabella, it states that her father was there with her and he was a widow. I did find a death for a Janet Scott in 1864 in Kensington, but don't know if that would be her or not. If it is then David/Daniel would have been 11 when she died and you think he would have gone to live with his siblings. But I haven't found Janet after 1851, and no trace of David/Daniel either.
Family history, the never ending detective story!!!!
Thanks,
Terri. |
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| | | From: stootee | Sent: 7/24/2008 1:26 AM |
Hi Marian,
I've been searching the 1861 Census records for Daniel/David, Janet and any other member of the family. They just seemed to have vanished except for the oldest daughter Isabella. I only looked at England Census records. On familysearch I found a David Greenbill (maybe just a slip of a finger on the keyboard) His parents were William Greenbill and Elizabeth Smith, he was born in 1829. I thought this may be Janet's nephew who married her eldest daughter Isabella. I'm going to order David Greenhill's death certificate to see if that gives me some more information on him. Have you found anything on the Scottish Census? (If you've had a chance to look?)
I do have some nice news. I met the man who gave me lots of information on my father's side of the family last week. He was visiting a daughter who lives in NSW (Australia) and he asked could we meet. So I met him, his wife one son, his daughter and one of his grandsons. It was such a great visit, and nice to put a face to a name and voice who is from the same family. We are second cousins, once removed. Bit distant but still related. So family history has rewards along the way.
Thanks again for the help you've given me on this line.
Regards,
Terri. |
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Hi Terri How lovely for you to meet your cousin. As you say, this is one of the rewards that we receive along the way. Sorry I didn't get back onto your case before now, but I am back on it now and will post anything I find on here for you. Marian |
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Hi Terri It's hard to know about the David Greenbill that you found. You could well be right, but you would need to prove with certificates. I have been looking back through my notes from early July and this was all I could find for you from the Scottish censuses. I am not sure about either of these two David Scotts, but they are of the right age. You can see for yourself and decide. Do bear in mind the frequent errors that occur on so many documents. I never like to dismiss anything too quickly, or indeed to assume anything. 1861 Scotland Census Living with grandparents. Name: David Scott
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relationship: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Deely, Devonport ??
Registration Number: 282/1
Registration district: Dundee First District
Civil Parish: Dundee
County: Angus
Address: Dudhope Place
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 18
Household schedule number: 418
Line: 6
Roll: CSSCT1861_38
Household Members: Name Age
Alexr Scott 30
David Scott 67
David Scott 9
Elizabeth Scott 34
Georgina Scott 24
Isabella Scott 42
Janet Scott 65
Jessie Scott 40
William Scott 39
1861 Scotland Census
Name: David Scott
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relationship: Son
Mother's Name: Janet
Gender: Male
Where born: Dundee, Forfar
Registration Number: 282/1
Registration district: Dundee First District
Civil Parish: Dundee
Town: Dundee
County: Angus
Address: Dura Street
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 30
Household schedule number: 66
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1861_39
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Scott 11
Arthur Scott 4
David Scott 8
Isobel Scott 2
Jane Scott 6
Wife St Lcott Janet Scott 34
Janet Scott 13
Marian
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Terri - Do you have David and Isabella's marriage certificate as per this record in message no. 12? Marriages Mar 1857
Greenhill David Bermondsey 1d 87
Scott Isabella Bermondsey 1d 87
It would give both their fathers' names and other info such as witnesses which might perhaps give us some clues. Marian |
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| | | From: stootee | Sent: 7/28/2008 5:31 AM |
Hi Marian,
I am going to send for the marriage certificate of David and Isabella this week. I thought I would see what other information I could get and maybe get a few. But It looks like I will only get a couple of certificates this time, but I may be lucky and get lots of information from them.
Thanks again,
Terri. |
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