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I just read your message. It is very good. It is always good to study and ponder and pray about the truth and receive from God, the true understanding.

No, Jesus did not have the Holy Ghost from birth. If he had, the Word would make that clear, as it does about John. John is the ONLY person we have any record of, who had the Holy Ghost before birth.

This happend to John because of the mighty connection between him and Jesus. See, John was filled at the very time Mary saluted Elizabeth. Jesus was the tinest of humanity at that time, just a short time after Mary had conceived him.

John was six months in Elizabeth. But when Mary spoke, John was filled with the Holy Ghost, being the FORE-RUNNER for Jesus. He had to lead that way out of the old C into the New.

The law and the prophets were UNTIL JOHN. Then there was no more law and prophets.

John was the first NT prophet. He was also a priest, being the son of a priest. But his job was to prepare the way for Jesus.

So he had the Holy Ghost with him all the days of his life. Elizabeth was also filled with the Holy Ghost at that time, translating her out of the old system or kingdom, into the New Kingdom of Christ.

There is so much to all of this. I am just too tired to write it all. Jesus did not receive the Holy ghost until he was baptized, at age 30. His life up until then, was a normal human life, except for his studying and receiving the mighty teachings from God.

He was given the SEVEN SPIRITS of God. This is those spirits named in Isa. 11, and a couple of them are listed in another place. I wrote a message, here, somewhere, showing those seven spirits.

We need all of them also. We need faith to work the mighty works of God; not the dead works of the law.

Don't ever feel you burden me with questions. I love it. That is what I am here for. Wish more people had this kind of interest in learning the TRUTH.

Good night. God bless you, and may you receive the true REVELATION.

We care not how many slander us and hate us. It is worth it all to have his glory and truth.

Wish I had thought and told you my dream, while we were talking. So glorious.

Larry, what do yout think on this?

Thank you, Brother Larry, for this great and powerful message. That is a good insight into these deep and spiritual things.

I hope to get back to this later today. have some other things I must finish right now. Thank you for giving us this great truth.

We can also find the baptism of fire in and judgement ministry in

Psalm 149

1Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.

2Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

3Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

4For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.

5Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.

6Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; ( word of God)

wHAT was the 2edged sword for?

7To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;

8To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;

9To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

I hope you can see that the baptism of the Holy Ghost and baptism of fire are 2 different ministries.

I am going to post some short things on this, then after I finish writing them all, I hope to go back and put them all into one long message. But for now, I want to show a small bit at a time, hoping someone will study it and get into it. Too much at a time confuses and looses them.

Here is the first part:

Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

Joe 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Larry, I know you went to this, but I want to show some more on this, for the sake of those who may want to study and learn some of this truth. I know that the churches out there do not have this kind of deep truth.

See, the TRUMPET is always associated with the judgments. Sound an ALARM. Why an ALARM? See this also has to do with judgments striking. Let the inhabitants tremble. Why? For the DAY OF THE LORD is nigh or near.

So what is this DOY OF THE LORD? Most people think it is the coming of Jesus to earth. But no, that is not the answer. The Day of the LORD is when He brings his wrath on the land for there sins and rebellion.

Who is he telling to sound this alarm? IT is the ones who have the BAPTISM OF FIRE. It is the FIRE coming out of their mouths. See, they have to have the Baptism of FIRE for FIRE to come out of their mouth. So how does it come out of their mouth? It is the WORDS THEY SPEAK.

Verse two, see that he associates this day of the LORD with this great strong people. Who are they? Those who receive the Baptism of Fire. And who is that? Watch and see.

Joe 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

See the above? That is the SIXTH Seal. Re 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

See. Compare those two verses. The earth quake before them�?lo, there was a great earthquake…�?same earthquake. See the proof�?sun darkened.. moon dark, turned to blood.

I will stop here and post this. Let you read a bit at a time, so you can get into this.

(I did not proofread the above; made mistakes; so need to proof read these others.)

Joel 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

Joel 2:4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.

Nothing shall escape this great group of people, who are sounding those trumpets. Notice that they make the land a desolate wilderness. Some wildernesses are exploring new territory. But this is not the case here. It is making them DESOLATE.

Where is that prominent in Scripture? When Jesus pronounced Jerusalem desolate. So Jesus was taking part here, in the judgment ministry. But who was it too? It was to the OLD COVENANT. See, something most people do not understand, all Scripture is for the past, the present and the future. It is always. It is eternal. It always true, no matter when you read it. It must be rightly DIVIDED.

Jesus had a dual message. He was bringing the OT to a close, or making them desolate. He was bringing in the New Covenant, or giving them life. One is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost (life). The other is the baptism of Fire (death or judgment). He was life to the NT and death to the OT.

Noah was death to the old world, but he was life to the new world. It always works this way. Now this is an important principal to learn, if you are to fully understand what I am teaching here about the two different baptisms, or ministries.

Verse four is the horsemen in Rev. nine. It is the saints of God equipped with the baptism of Fire. Re 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. Re 9:17 "And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. " Re 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths

See, the fire coming out of these horsemen’s mouths? This is the same group of people in Joel two. Now I want to show you something. This is not only for the end time, which we are now approaching. It was also back in the days of Jesus Christ.

See, Jesus first, spoke desolation, to that old law covenant, or the OT. Then he sent his anointed witnesses, the apostle and that early church, with both the baptism of the Holy Ghost and the baptism of fire.

Only those who received the Holy Ghost, were eligible to receive the Fire. Now those Apostles did as Jesus. They bought life to the NT saints, via the Holy Ghost. But they also were those horsemen coming against that OT law. John had laid the AX to the root of their trees. But the Apostles chopped them down.

They did this with the FIRE coming out of their mouths. If they rejected the Holy Ghost and the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, they were set to destruction. So they did the dual ministry as did Jesus. It will be the same with the witnesses today.

We will do a dual ministry. We will be bringing life to those who listen and obey the GOSPEL. But we will be given the FIRE, to speak desolation to this evil church of our day. They will be desolate, because they have rejected the GRACE message, as the Jews did in the days of the Apostles.

Joel 2:5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

Chariots in Scripture, are God’s angels. So these people are acting in capacity as the power of angels. What is the tops of the mountains? Mountains mean nations, or literally, churches, in our age. In Peter’s day, it was those old Jews and their priests and synagogues. This flame of fire is again the judgment ministry, or spirit of Fire, in these witnesses�?mouths.

Flame is said by Strong’s to be feminine. It shows fire to be the masculine. Rev. nine also shows these ministers to have hair like a woman (meaning the daughters of God) and face like a man, showing both male and female in this powerful ministry.

So, what is this flame of fire doing? Devouring stubble. What is stubble? It is the people who try to serve God by the works of the law, instead of faith/grace.

In Isa. 47, we see mystery Babylon being made desolate. This is that old covenant, for Jesus told them, those Jews of his day, you are guilty of all the righteous blood shed on earth. Same words are said to Babylon in Rev. 18. So they are one and the same. There are many more proofs in the Word, but I will not take that in now. Have shown it many times.

But see that she says I am and none beside me. That is those JEWS who think they are God’s only and chosen people. But they worshipped idols and are the very ones God is destroying. Isa 47:11 Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.

See that here she is made DESOLATE. This is the very same one we are showing that Jesus and John made to be DESOLATE. And now the ministers of fire are carrying out that command, to make them desolate.

Now here is the proof that they are the STUBBLE: Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.

Here is more proof that the wicked are the stubble.

Ob 1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

Here Esau represents that first, or law covenant. Jacob and Joseph were not under law. Esau, being the first born, represents Adam/law. They are devoured as STUBBLE. (This is why Esau could not find a place of repentance = he is the same as the law. So those who try to serve God by law, cannot come to repentance, for Heb. Six says that it is impossible for them to come back to Christ, since they put him to open shame, by returning to LAW. So they are the stubble, those who return to law.)

So this same theme is carried out all through Scripture. It solidly proves that the saints of God will devour the sinners, as stubble is burned in fire.

Na 1:10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry

Now I know the ‘law folks�?will deny this, but it is scripture just the same�?thorns in the Word, means LAW. So again, it shows they are the STUBBLE which the FIRE MINISTRY will devour.

And for the final proof: Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. (Arise is resurrection.)

See that this day that burns as an oven is the very same day mentioned in Joel two, the Day of the LORD. See that it speaks the very same thing--- the stubble being burned up. Verse two shows turning to the NT salvation. The Sun of righteousness, with healing in his wings, is Christ Jesus and his apostles, the two witnesses.

Who went forth and grew up as CALVES? THE NT Saints of God.

The last part of this chapter also shows the turning from the law of Moses, to the NT salvation. I know that many totally misuse this Scripture, to say we need to stay with the law of Moses. But if you closely read this, with some understanding, it is clear that it moves from that working to the NT Saints.

Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So is it telling us to stay with the law of Moses? Not one bit. Look at it. He tells them to remember that law of Moses. Then he said, behold I will (future tense) send you Elijah the prophet BEFORE the coming of the great and DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD.

So this is speaking about the very same dreadful Day of the LORD, as is Joel two. What is this ’Elijah�?to do? turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Who is these fathers? It is those saints of the OT. Who is their children? It is the saints of the NT, those who received the Holy Ghost, on the day of Pentecost.

So this Elijah was to turn those OT Saints to the NT Saints. They were already commanded to EAT the flesh of their CHILDREN. What is that? It means they, (the OT Saints) had to come and eat the Spiritual Meat, or message of those NT Saints, the Apostles.

So why did he tell them to remember the law of Moses? He was telling them not to be rebellious as those who had to be put under law. Remember that it is DEATH. It is Condemnation. 11Cor. 3.

He is saying do not be rebellious when you should come into the NT and eat the message of GRACE or life. Eat the FLESH of your CHILDREN, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. What is that curse?

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Ga 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Ga 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Ga 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ga 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed

I truly do not understand how anyone could read the above verse and still think that we are to still be under that law? It was never of faith. They were SHUT UP under that law. It was a curse. It is not of Faith. How much more does anyone need to see that this is the curse which went over the earth?

Interesting Scripture Freeborn: What do you make of it?

Luke 1:14-17 (KJV)
^1:14And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
¹⁵For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
¹⁶And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
¹⁷And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Now it leads me to study who Elias was. And that is what I will do. I think I should study John the Baptist some more also. He was predicted in scriptures also.

that is a good hing to study,

my computer, the main computer crashed and is dead as a door nail. gone, gone,gone,.

i am sick, sick, sick. bought a new wonderful printer.......guess what.....the computer would not read that cd either. could not put the software on the comuter.

then Eric took it apart tried to fix and it crasehd is dead gone.

boo hooo. i do not have a reboot disk. made a set, but they do not work. so now, me gonna have to do without, use this, or go buy another one.

this computer stuff is robbijg me of all mymoney, all mytime. and my mind. without a great love for the word of God, I would FORGET COMPUTERING FOREVER.

spent $175.00 today for th epringer and stuff, now got to o buy a new computer of ..no need to try to fix the old one, will not read the cds.

go goodnightl me too upset to do anything.

well, computer is running again, but something is messing up...MSN? still getting those page cannot be found things.

I am worn out with this stuff. Hooked up my old computer and got all those old messages off those floppies saved. already had most of them anyway. still can't use the new printer though. same thing happened to my old computer = cd reader messed up.

how does that happen? what to do about it?

I amglad to hear that your computer is running and that you got most of your messges saved from your floppies.

Maybe your internet connection is slow and that is why you are seeing that messgae.

I have had no problems with MSN today.

I am studing Elijah/Elisah is scripture this morning. And how he compared to John the Baptist. VERY INTRESTING STUDY.

Yes, it is very interesting. my computer is working, but it will not read the cd to put my new printer's software on.

my old computer also got messed up with this same problem. don't know what does it.

btw, I have given skyangel a challenge on your board. she thinks I am afraid to deal with her. I am just not going to allow her to come in here and try to tear down everything we are or teach.

if she wanted to teach her ideas, that would be fine....but all she wanted was to try to tear me down. I do not have time for such doings.

she is so self-centered and thinks she is something special, that all she does is try to tear others down with lies.

well, I will wait and see if she is 'teacher' enough to deal with me .....in scripture, not mud slinging.

You should have seen the unbelievable ugliness with which she and her husband attacked, ridiculed, and lorated rollingstone, when he was a member in her other site. he showed me that stuff. it was unbelievable ugliness and all for no reason.

]that is not of God, but satan]/

I have been studing John The Baptist. As you know, it has taken me back to Elias/Elijah study in the O.T. But I was again reading this message again. And something that you said is true.

This thought came to me: When Jesus came to John to be baptized, John said, I have need to be baptized of you.

Now I was thinking, Jesus was to baptize with the Holy Ghost and fire. So was John saying he did not yet have the baptism of this?

Yes. This is what John needed. But my question now is: Did John receive this baptism of the Holy Ghost & fire from Jesus?

Maybe studing Elijah/Elias will give me a clue. Since John had the spirit and power of Elias.

Well time for work.

Love you.

Tweety

This is good thinking and studying. I have not had time to get back to this, and had lost sight of which thread this was on.

I do not think that John did receive these spirit baptisms, because Jesus said, he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is GREATER than John.

I know John had the Holy ghost from the womb, but just exactly in what form, I do not know yet.

but since he had need to be baptized of Jesus, I would say, no. Jesus did not do the water baptizing, so John would have known this. I believe he wanted the baptism of the Spirit, which baptizes us into the body of Christ.

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