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KIKI COMMENTARY : Godly Polygamy
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 Message 1 of 4 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJacobs_Trouble  (Original Message)Sent: 12/1/2006 4:58 PM

 aaah... the sounds of family... the pitter-patter of busy little feet.. I suspect that Hope might be caught in the throes of "morning sickness". But.. what do I know, I'm only a man. Is anyone here faithful? Anyway it's my turn to hop into the apology line-up... Post #38 needed a little improvement in grammar. I make my apology for using terminology that was less than objective.


Jacobs_Trouble:  

God permits and then changes his mind? How typical of neo-feminist logic. Only "quite"? Is the LORD our God so confused that He should vacillate as a woman in her moment of indecision? Again you err, not discerning the fullness of the scripture. First you say, He permitted and now you say He FORBADE what He permitted. This does not sound much like the CHANGELESS ONE to me. The STATUTE you refer to does not forbid the godly "adding" of wives but the MULTIPLYING for gain, like cattle. If your words were in full agreement with the scripture then you are saying that God broke His own STATUTE by adding wives unto King David. Try as you might, you cannot have it BOTH ways. Either God is true, or He is a liar. I verily maintain that God is true. In Him there is no variance. I understand that neo-feminists change their minds a great deal. http://groups.msn.com/FULLBIBLETRUTH/neofeminismandmatriachy.msnw


No, Kiki I am not implying that you are that Neo-Feminist formerly known by some as "PastorswifePuritan". I was merely quoting myself with excerpts that were written to her by me, in order to address some of the issues that you have mentioned. To be honest, you seem to be floundering considerably on certain issues of obedience to the husband and waffling on many of your positions with respect to godly polygyny.

Now I am stating that godly polygyny does exist today and that it will continue to increase as we see the day approaching. It has existed throughout the church ages in every dispensation that has followed since Adam and Eve were both banished from the garden and it will continue to exist until the Lord returns. All marriage can be used for good or evil but every wife who desires and chooses to remain with her godly husband will be sanctified by God and her children also as stated in 1 Corinthians 7.

It is vitally important that all parties in polygynous marriages and monogamous marriages understand that all godly marriage is for life. People who have not even ventured the first works should never attempt any sort of marriage at all but we know this warning will go unheeded by most -- regardless of whether they choose to engage in l'basar echad through "civil marriage", "common-law", polymory, adultery, fornication, serial monogamy, etc. etc. And it remains that the majority of these will purpose to do so without the sanctification of God through and by the Holy Spirit in baptism and salvation in Jesus name.

So your point about opening up polygyny to the general public is moot because people do what seems good in their own eyes and will continue to do so. Sadly, they will not operate in the holy institution of marriage in a godly fashion, either monogamously or polygynously, without the first works. Even those who would lay claim to "Christian Polygamy" are usually totally "out to lunch" as much as those who would dare to lay claim to "Christian Monogamy" when the majority of them did not even marry as virgins. Now how many couples in the Lord do you know who have truly satisfied the GENUINE MONOGAMY equation? If they fail in the slightest they must concede that they are indeed polygamists for they have become ONE FLESH with more than one partner regardless of whether it was pre-baptism or not. PERIOD.

I find it ironic that those advocates of COMPULSARY MONOGAMY would stomp around and demand that even those who have been "married" prior to salvation in Jesus name are still obligated to their former spouses. It is as though they are trying to have it both ways. They want these spouses to suffer the penalties and consequences of marriage to more than one but they don't want them to enjoy the benefits - especially if they are men. All sorts of wickedness arise out of this: 

Divorcing the spouse that they are with at the time only to return to those former wallowings in the mire of mortal union and the treachery of carnal lusts. Baby, when it's gone.. It’s gone. Therefore if what they say is true, that we are subject to all those spouses we married and divorced prior to baptism, then it is time for the church to wake up and realize that polygamy, godly or otherwise, is also the choice of the majority... And if what Kiki40 says is true, then we also required to obey that "majority government" of the people, by the people, for the people, and legalize polygamy so that we might better serve the GOVERNMENT.  

So it suffices us well to forgive those souls who trespass against us and also to love one another even as Jesus first loved us. Now you know that this cannot be accomplished without the true love of God, Who knew that the woman was made for the man and not the other way around. That is why those women who are in polygynous marriages will suffer from a great deal of trouble in the flesh even if their husband hasn't already committed suicide by the time their misery has passed. Like all marriage outside of God, it has a built-in, hard-wired, self-destruct mechanism.

Godly polygyny is truly selfless. It requires maturity in the Lord that few are able to embrace because their hearts are yet carnal and their minds are constantly dwelling on fleshly things and the things of the world instead of the awesome goodness of God. Sarah couldn't handle it because Sarah didn't have the Holy Spirit. Nonetheless Sarah began with the best of intentions in giving Abraham her handmaiden and God did certainly suffer her for her blunderings because He knew her heart. Afterall, Sarah was only a woman.

I'm also saying that l'basar echad is in every way applicable to a husband with more than one wife and that it is applicable to every wife becoming "one flesh" with a husband, regardless of how many wives that said husband may have. I will maintain that God is able to sanctify it. If anyone reading this should beg to differ me, that is fully their prerogative and I bear no ill regard toward them for this because I understand that the truth about godly polygyny has always been a revelation from God. Although others, thinking themselves learned, have dared to call it a "private interpretation" (despite the fact that it is featured throughout the HOLY BIBLE in a positive light, without rebuke from God). I cannot expect them to receive if they are not able to receive it any more than I can expect a brother or sister to receive the gift of celibacy when it doesn't belong to them.

Brad has been making some excellent points about marriage throughout many of these posts and I find it interesting Kiki, that you will agree with his words in one post whereas, further along, you appear to disagree with the same words in another point. Although I realize it is a woman's prerogative to change her mind this sort of vacillation does not edify the truth of God in the knowledge that He is the Changeless One. Nonetheless I think that you would do us all a great service in your dramatic representations of vacillation to affirm the godly precept that the Bride is certainly NOT the Son. It would be really tough to serve a God who constantly kept changing His mind about His laws.

Surely there are more examples in ONENESS of men who have legally acquired brides (plural) and have received the Holy Ghost since they believed. So if their pastors are so hard-hearted as to tell these newly born men that they must now divorce (all but one spouse) I strongly suggest that they go find another pastor. Both polygynous men and monogamous men are ANSWERABLE to God for all their wives because godly marriage is until death. Come now, if the blood of Jesus is not able to wash away the bonds of filthy and ungodly marriage how much more will it fail to wash away the other sins! Now I should think that the sons and daughters of God who have been weaned from the milk would know that BONDAGE to anything ungodly is sinful.

The advice in 1 Corinthians 7 is flawless. Godly women need to "suck it up" and understand what godly love is really about instead of trying to be the masters of their husbands if they expect to remain godly. Otherwise there will be chinks in the armor and that Jezebel spirit is sure to discover them. Remember: God hates putting away and even Jesus said that women put away their husbands. He didn't say that they had the God given authority to do so, but God has called us to peace.

Amen?

(from a board that got completely off topic)



First  Previous  2-4 of 4  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 4 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJacobs_TroubleSent: 12/1/2006 5:06 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameKiki40</NOBR> Sent: 01/12/2006 12:26 AM
Well, I took a good bit of time to respond to your message #38, JT, so I'm just gonna post it like I copied it, okay? Congrats, Hope! (Though I'm very happy to be leaving my darling grandchildren tomorrow to return to my exceptionally diaper-free potpourri-smelling environment! lol!)
 
Jacob's Trouble: ...To be honest, you seem to be floundering considerably on issues of obedience to your husband and waffling on many of your positions.

Kiki: Name them sir, and I shall surely steady your vision.

Now I am stating that godly polygyny does exist and that it will increase as we see the day approaching.

Scripture disagrees with you in this respect: Godliness will not increase, but decrease. Apostasy or a great "falling away" is the precursor to Christ's return (2 Thess 2:3).

It has existed throughout the church ages in every dispensation

 The one singular dispensation of grace that contains the seven church ages of Revelations 2-3 began with the outpouring of the Holy Ghost and will conclude with the rapture. I doubt not that polygyny has existed throughout all that time, but you have yet to convince me that it has merited the approval of God in this dispensation of grace.

... So your point about opening up polygyny to the general public is moot.

What point is that? I merely sliced through the fluff to identify the intentions of your argument against government mandated monogamy. Like you intimated, statistics prove that worldly men and women alike already take unto themselves multiple partners and that even those who have come to the Lord are divorcing and remarrying almost as much as the rest of the population. If the Lord does not need the government to sanction a marriage in order for Him to sanctify it, then where's your argument? God gave you a revelation that polygyny can be sanctified? Then you either need to live in a place where that is legal or reconcile with the scriptures that charge you to obey the authorities He has placed over you. You have no authority from scripture to declare government sanctioned monogamy evil. (Your term "mandated monogamy" is somewhat a misnomer, because the government does not force people to be married. It only forbids people to be married to more than one spouse at a time, and at present, also forbids homosexuals to marry.)

People do what seems good in their own eyes and will continue to do so. Sadly, they do not operate in the holy institution of marriage in a godly fashion, either polygynously or otherwise, without the first works. Even those who would lay claim to "Christian Polygamy" are usually "out to lunch" as are those who dare to lay claim to "Christian Monogamy". How many couples in the Lord do you know who have truly satisfied the MONOGAMY equation? If they fail in the slightest they must concede that they are indeed polygamists for they have become ONE FLESH with more than one partner. PERIOD.

No contest. That verse that contains the phrase "and such were some of you" lists a whole bunch of sins on par with polygamous fornications and concludes "But ye are washed..." The blood of Jesus cleanses all from those past sins committed in the ignorance of our unbelief. I have no doubt that there are plenty of Christians who have failed and miss the mark when it comes to what God expects of marriage. I make no excuse. Yet the word of God is true.

I find it ironic that those advocates of COMPULSARY MONOGAMY would stomp around and demand that even those who have been "married" prior to salvation in Jesus name are still obligated to their former spouses.

I thank you for helping me to see the Full Bible Truth of this matter. Indeed, I was ignorant in how to divide the word of God concerning those who were divorced before coming to the Lord. You are right about it and I do believe that I pointed that out some time ago. Godly marriage requires God's presence. Everything else is fornication. A person who was divorced before coming to the Lord is free to marry. A person who divorces after coming to the Lord is not, except in the cases defined by the Lord.

It is as though they are trying to have it both ways. They want the spouses to suffer the penalties of marriage to more than one but they don't want them to enjoy the benefits. All sorts of wickedness arise out of this: such as divorcing the spouse that they are with at the time only to return to those former wallowing in the mire of mortal marriage. Baby, when it's gone.. It’s gone. Therefore if what they say is true, that we are subject to all those spouses we married and divorced prior to baptism then it is time for the church to wake up and realize that polygamy is the choice of the majority... And if what Kiki40 says is true, then we should also obey that majority government of the people, by the people, for the people and legalize polygamy.  

Technically, since you defined polygamy as simply having more than one sex partner in either serial marriages or fornications, it is already legal.  It is because the church does not recognize polygyny as a sanctifiable marriage situation that you are so miffed, not the government. You live in a place that allows it and you're still squawking about it! 

So it suffices us well to forgive those souls who trespass against us and to love one another even as Jesus first loved us. Now you know, that this cannot be accomplished without the true love of God. That is why women in polygynous marriages will suffer a great deal of trouble in the flesh even if their husband hasn't already committed suicide by the time all their misery has passed. Godly polygyny is selfless. It requires maturity in the Lord that few are able to embrace because their hearts are yet carnal and their minds are constantly dwelling on fleshly things and the things of the world instead of the awesome goodness of God.

We can say the same for godly monogamy.

I'm also saying that l'basar echad is in every way applicable to a husband with more than one wife and that it is applicable to every wife becoming "one flesh" with a husband, regardless of how many wives that said husband may have.

Well, sir, you have the liberty to say whatever you want. But you have yet to prove that God has said such.

I will maintain that God is able to sanctify it.

And I have not yet denied that. I have challenged you to prove it. I do see the potential for that in scripture if it can be aligned. I get cross-eyed every time I try to handle the matter for y'all's many issues with etymologies confuses it something fierce. I am studying still. And as you can see by my continued presence here, I desire the approval of God more than the approval of men.

Let's just pretend for a moment that God does not sanctify polygyny in this dispensation in any case. Paul's instructions to the married believer in 1 Cor 7 cannot be obeyed for the believing husband would have to put away all but one wife (if he wishes to be married) and the believing wife would have to depart from the unbelieving husband unless he be pleased to put away all of his other wives. The believing wife who departs would then have to remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband after he has put away all of his other wives. It is either that or all polygynous marriages are automatically voided when one member comes to the Lord, and the believing husband is then free to marry a believing wife and any of his believing wives are free to marry their own husbands, but only in the Lord.

I'm just not happy with either of those options because I feel that NT scripture surely would have addressed the inequity of the monogamous believer being able to possibly win the unbelieving spouse by staying in the union where that option is not available for the polygynous believer. That is not to say that polygyny can be a sanctified option for the unmarried man who comes to the Lord or the man already in a monogamous union with one wife. I do see a precedence in scripture for declaring all unsanctifiable marriages void and allowing for the putting away of those situations in order to gain the favor of God. See Ezra 10. For those conflicts from 1 Cor 7 just named, I remain undecided that there exists such a thing as sanctified polygyny. If a worldly monogamous marriage becomes sanctified by virtue of the newly believing spouse, why not a worldly polygynous one? The only way that it would not is if polygyny across the board is an unsanctifiable situation....like the forbidden marriages of Ezra 10.

If you should disagree with me, that is fully your prerogative and I bear no ill regard toward you for this because I understand that the truth about godly polygyny has always been a revelation from God. Although others, thinking themselves learned, have dared to call it a "private interpretation" (despite the fact that it is featured throughout the HOLY BIBLE in a positive light without rebuke from God) I cannot expect you to receive it if you are not able to receive it.

I rest in my conscious before God that I have made myself available to know if these things you say be so. And that I have contended with the things I believe to be false. I live in a real world and I deal with real people and real pain. I have a real God and a real message and a real salvation. Polygyny is not a real  issue in my world at present, so I can handle it dispassionately here and still render proper respect due other creatures made in the image of God, in whose lives polygyny is a real issue. (At least, I hope that I have done so...and if I have offended, I do apologize and humbly ask forgiveness.) Even if I should be fully convinced that God does not sanctify polygynous unions in this dispensation, I would present my case as to those taken in a fault, with a mind toward restoration, and not as to those who have no knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Brad has been making some excellent points throughout many of these posts and I find it interesting that you will agree with his words in one post whereas, further along, you appear to disagree with the same words in another point. Although I realize it is a woman's prerogative to change her mind this sort of vacillation does not edify the truth of God in the knowledge that He is the Changeless One.

The failure, sir, may well be encased in your capacity to understand my meaning rather than any vascilations on my part.

I think that you would do us all a great service in your dramatic representations of vacillation to affirm the precept that the Bride is certainly NOT the Son. It would be really tough to serve a God who constantly kept changing His mind about His laws.

The Bride is not the Son. I'm truly at a loss as to where that statement came from, though. I haven't visited any other thread yet... 

Surely there are examples in ONENESS of men who have legally acquired brides (plural) and have received the Holy Ghost since they believed.

That is precisely why I endeavor to acknowledge you as brother and pay heed to sound doctrine.

So if their pastors are so hard-hearted as to tell these men that they must now divorce all but one spouse I suggest that they find another pastor. Polygynous men are ANSWERABLE to God for all their wives because marriage is until death.

Godly marriage is until death. You have yet to prove that polygyny can be a godly marriage in this dispensation. And your accusation of hard-heartedness would be levelled against Ezra, for that is exactly what he did.  Observe the list in Ezra 10 that he compiled of the 114 men who saw that they had trespassed against the command of God to not take for themselves foreign wives and note that to remedy the situation, they had to put those wives and the children born to them away. If it can be proven that polygyny is not a sanctifiable situation before God in this dispensation, then polygynists are in a state of trespassing.

Come now, if the blood of Jesus is not able to wash away the bonds of filthy and ungodly marriage how much more will it fail to wash away the other sins! Now I should think that the sons and daughters of God know that BONDAGE to anything ungodly is sinful.

Agreed.

Remember: God hates putting away.

You yourself pointed out that it is not just any "putting away" that He hates, but the "putting away for any cause," or the "dealing treacherously" with the wife of your youth. If it is all putting away that He hates, then explain Ezra 10.

Amen, brother. God has called us to peace. May you have it in abundance.


Reply
 Message 3 of 4 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJacobs_TroubleSent: 12/1/2006 5:18 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameKiki40</NOBR> Sent: 01/12/2006 1:41 AM
JT: ...I love sister Kiki very much and it is good to see these matters being hashed out for the benefit of arriving at the fullness of truth. I realize that her inconsistency in addressing you as scannerman and myself isn't very likely accidental in nature, but perhaps she is attempting to demonstrate a 'higher truth' to us in some fashion. After all my dear, we are One Flesh.
 
Apology already made and accepted...but now that you see that it, indeed, was accidental in nature, might I expect an humbling from you, dear brother?

Kiki has demonstrated by some mysterious double standard that we should obey ungodly government when they demand that we participate in ungodly practices...

You have twisted my words, sir. There is no double standard. We should obey the law of the land unless the law of the land requires us to disobey God's commands. You show me a godly government in the history of mankind outside of theocratic Israel of the OT and I'll recant in abject humility that Romans 13:1-7 has any application to remaining monogamous in those countries that forbid polygamy out of obedience to the authority that has been placed over them by God. Until then, consider that Paul wrote those very words as a citizen of a government no more godly than ours.

 but she advises that wives should disobey husbands who would do the same.

You do me dishonor sir, to present me so. In the same standard presented between a Christian and a government, a wife should obey God rather than her husband. That is all I communicated.

Obviously she does not give credence to the idea that the husband is the government of the household and she is not persuaded to believe that the husband is the pastor over his own household either. Yes she vacilates when she perceives that it is in the favor of her argument to do so. Bear with her. I suspect that she may be working out some personal problems -- just like the rest of us. 

The husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. Prove from scripture that the husband is the pastor of his household. Scripture does not say that. It does say that he is the head and should certainly be revered as such if he is leading the body to Christ. He does not have spiritual headship if he is not, but we are called to peace. The unbelieving husband does not lose his authority over the believing wife.

Of course, I did not miss the matter of her words in an earlier post to Brad that she should obey her husband even if her husband is wrong.

You eveidently did miss it, for I said that she should be in subjection whether her husband is righteous or not.

It would seem that she changed her mind about that one later on, also. Actually when it comes to a question of "obedience", I'm beginning to get the impression that what she really means is that a wife should obey her husband when she feels it suits her own best interests to do so.

Well, sir, misunderstanding me is your own misfortune.

I'm still trying to work out the part where she thinks we should obey a government that requires us to compromise the word of God.

How does the US government require it's citizens to compromise their obedience to the word of God?


Reply
 Message 4 of 4 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJacobs_TroubleSent: 12/2/2006 1:11 AM
Okay.. and now it is back to business as usual.. I will type my current answers in green so as to avoid any confusion on the reader's part about what was said and when:
 
Jacob's Trouble: ...To be honest, you seem to be floundering considerably on issues of obedience to your husband and waffling on many of your positions.

Kiki: Name them sir, and I shall surely steady your vision.

How about if I just list some of the "raw data" here for now and let you slog through it yourself for the time being? That way, I might better continue with the present post at hand; but for the moment, see if you can detect the contradictions in the following material:

FOUND UNDER GENERAL: A MAN CANNOT SERVE TWO MASTERS IN MATRIARCHY


POST #10
There is one point you made that I should like to give a hearty AMEN! to as being absolute truth. A husband does not have to be right in order to expect submission from his wife. The same rule applies to parents and children, as well as masters and slaves. Peter covered it all quite well in the passage I referenced.

FOUND UNDER GENERAL: OBEY IN ALL THINGS
POST #1
These are the only classifications of people I find who must obey in all things regardless:
 
Colossians 3:20 (Whole Chapter)
Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

Colossians 3:22 (Whole Chapter)
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;

Everyone else is permitted to reserve the right to judge whether a thing be of God or not before they submit to it. I find little support for the assertion that a wife must obey her husband in all things, especially when the person in authority deviates from the word of God.  Even the Apostle Paul gave limitations on how he was to be followed:

FOUND UNDER GENERAL: POST NOT ANSWERED YET...
POST #1
I am considering the man who puts away his wife unjustly. The point of "putting away" without a writ of divorcement was already addressed in this verse:
 
Matthew 5:32 (Whole Chapter)
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
 
and we can see that the "put away" wife who marries another husband without being properly set free from the law of her former husband by a writ of divorcement is charged with adultery. But the point was not addressed about the husband who puts one wife away unjustly and takes another wife. As someone has already presented in the case for godly polygamy, simply taking another wife in a godly marriage cannot be not considered adultery. (If the marriage is ungodly, whether there be one wife or one hundred, it is fornication.) How is it, then, that a man who puts away a wife unjustly and takes another is committing adultery according to Matthew 19:9? Another detail in that situation is revealed here, which may provide an answer:

-------

Therefore, at the least concession permissible from scripture, "godly" polygyny does not exist without the blessings of the first godly wife. It is an exceptional man indeed, who can live in peace with two or more women.
 

POST #15
This could very well be speaking to polygamous situations. That is the major reason why I refuse to say that there is absolutely no such thing as godly polygyny. However, that does not mean that I agree that a single saved man may chose for himself more than one wife, or that a believing husband currently in a godly marriage may take unto himself another wife
...
I will grant leeway to spiritualize adultery in this case, for we are all in the Bride of Christ, married to Him in spirit regardless of our status in the flesh. It almost needs to be spiritualized because there is no marital status stated in this verse, not for the man nor the woman. That is why I say that a godly wife is well able to perceive such uncleanness entering into her marriage, both fleshly and spiritually. She has been made by God, after all, one flesh with her husband. If it is possible for a godly woman to ascertain for herself from her spiritual Husbandman that a second godly woman is being added to her earthly but also godly husband without lust, then I might acquiesce to the possibility that polygyny could be a godly choice for believers in this current dispensation.


POST #24
FYI, I do not believe that 4:1 is necessarily depicting polygyny as sinful. ... Those marriages will not be sanctified ones.


FOUND UNDER GENERAL: PLEASE XPLAIN TO US WHAT THIS MEANS...
POST #13
The Church does not have a direct charge from God to marry a certain way (other than "in the Lord") nor to subvert governmental authorities from dictating who we can or cannot marry. Therefore, teaching, advocating, encouraging, and otherwise supporting polygyny in those places where it is illegal is in direct opposition to what scripture teaches is the expected behaviour of the Christian during our sojourn here.


POST#21
The church is not here to concern itself with government...unless, maybe, particular righteous individuals are being moved by God to participate in it or were "called into the kingdom for such a time as this." The church is here to concern itself with the preaching of the gospel.

POST#22
 I reckon our age is no different. Let the wise ones do more than speak. Let them get involved in government and use their influence to persuade men toward righteousness.

POST #46
JT: I'm also saying that l'basar echad is in every way applicable to a husband with more than one wife and that it is applicable to every wife becoming "one flesh" with a husband, regardless of how many wives that said husband may have.

Kiki: Well, sir, you have the liberty to say whatever you want. But you have yet to prove that God has said such.

JT: I will maintain that God is able to sanctify it.

Kiki: And I have not yet denied that. I have challenged you to prove it. I do see the potential for that in scripture if it can be aligned.


If what I have written in all these links in the left hand margin touching on the subject of godly polygyny has not yet convinced you that God is willing and able to sanctify it then I submit that you are unable to receive it.

Now I am stating that godly polygyny does exist and that it will increase as we see the day approaching.

Scripture disagrees with you in this respect: Godliness will not increase, but decrease. Apostasy or a great "falling away" is the precursor to Christ's return (2 Thess 2:3).

Scripture does no such thing. I did not state that "Godliness would increase" but rather, those are your own words which you have taken the liberty to add to mine. I am quite surprised at this, considering that I did not suspect that you would stoop to such a typical neo-feminist tactic. It is evident that I stated that godly polygyny will increase and since we are on the subject, I maintain that godly polygyny will increase even more and more as "monogamy" continues to decrease in popularity in North America and around the globe. The last time I checked the statistics (about two years ago) I discovered that genuine monogamy with a civil writ between consenting adults in North America set an all-time low of approximately 1-2% in the secular world. How much less it must be prevalent within those various institutions of alleged "Christendom" where we learn that the combined separation and divorce stats were nearly 10 percent higher than those in secular marriages !!!

It has existed throughout the church ages in every dispensation.

 The one singular dispensation of grace that contains the seven church ages of Revelations 2-3 began with the outpouring of the Holy Ghost and will conclude with the rapture. I doubt not that polygyny has existed throughout all that time, but you have yet to convince me that it has merited the approval of God in this dispensation of grace.

 Do you honestly mean to say that you did not know that there were multiple dispensations? Grace is only one of these dispensations, dear sister. Please talk to your pastor about it, or even better, talk to the pastor of your house about this. I don't dispute that there are "ages" within in dispensations but I have NEVER heard any ONENESS PASTOR preach that only one dispensation ever existed. Please do not suggest that there was no "church age" in existence prior to the New Covenant. I have little patience with semantics.

... So your point about opening up polygyny to the general public is moot.

What point is that? I merely sliced through the fluff to identify the intentions of your argument against government mandated monogamy. Like you intimated, statistics prove that worldly men and women alike already take unto themselves multiple partners and that even those who have come to the Lord are divorcing and remarrying almost as much as the rest of the population. If the Lord does not need the government to sanction a marriage in order for Him to sanctify it, then where's your argument? God gave you a revelation that polygyny can be sanctified? Then you either need to live in a place where that is legal or reconcile with the scriptures that charge you to obey the authorities He has placed over you. You have no authority from scripture to declare government sanctioned monogamy evil. (Your term "mandated monogamy" is somewhat a misnomer, because the government does not force people to be married. It only forbids people to be married to more than one spouse at a time, and at present, also forbids homosexuals to marry.)

You may split hairs with me on this if you wish. The end result is still the same: Within the context of legal and civil marriage in my country it is mandatory that all married couples may NOT legally remarry without a complete divorcement or legal anulment of marriage to all former spouses - whether separated or otherwise. That stated, I concur with your point which I received well over a year ago with respect to godly marriage. Once the Lord showed me that the whole concept of marriage sanctioned at the hand of Caesar was a complete farce I ceased from writing my book to the secular world about polygamy and marriage. I suppose that I still have an obligation to finish that book I started because it is a very good call to moral honesty and should cause the reader to take a closer look at themselves. The reason that I began writing to the secular world on this subject was to get them to see that MARRIAGE is simply NOT the business of the political government and that it never was. Please do not tell me that the currently existing government is busy tending to the Lord's business. It is not. Existing political government is legalizing and licensing homosexual marriage. How can this be called the Lord's business?

As for your telling me in so many words to get out of my country just because God gave me a revelation that polygyny can indeed be sanctified is ludicrous! For it is North America that desparately needs to WAKE UP and smell the coffee before they will ever come to the realization that the time is at hand, yea, even at the door, to RETURN TO THE ANCIENT LAND MARKS! Here is the conclusive reality of the situation: MARRIAGE should NOT be endorsed or sanctioned by CAESAR. It is the business of the Church - not the State - and it always has been. May I direct your attention to a link provided in the left margin of this forum? Allow me to provide it for you here: Some Food for Thought...  Please examine it so that you might better understand why political government should never attempt to usurp the authority of God in a spurious sanctioning of God's own institutions.

People do what seems good in their own eyes and will continue to do so. Sadly, they do not operate in the holy institution of marriage in a godly fashion, either polygynously or otherwise, without the first works. Even those who would lay claim to "Christian Polygamy" are usually "out to lunch" as are those who dare to lay claim to "Christian Monogamy". How many couples in the Lord do you know who have truly satisfied the MONOGAMY equation? If they fail in the slightest they must concede that they are indeed polygamists for they have become ONE FLESH with more than one partner. PERIOD.

No contest. That verse that contains the phrase "and such were some of you" lists a whole bunch of sins on par with polygamous fornications and concludes "But ye are washed..." The blood of Jesus cleanses all from those past sins committed in the ignorance of our unbelief. I have no doubt that there are plenty of Christians who have failed and miss the mark when it comes to what God expects of marriage. I make no excuse. Yet the word of God is true.

...And Amen. Though many in your own United Pentecostal doctrine would tell you that such bondage cannot be washed away by the Blood of the Lamb, we know that the Lord will not order us to return to those former things, but rather to abide in the same calling wherein we are called. The alcoholic and whoremonger alike must surrender those things they were once married to as well.

 I find it ironic that those advocates of COMPULSARY MONOGAMY would stomp around and demand that even those who have been "married" prior to salvation in Jesus name are still obligated to their former spouses.

I thank you for helping me to see the Full Bible Truth of this matter. Indeed, I was ignorant in how to divide the word of God concerning those who were divorced before coming to the Lord. You are right about it and I do believe that I pointed that out some time ago. Godly marriage requires God's presence. Everything else is fornication. A person who was divorced before coming to the Lord is free to marry. A person who divorces after coming to the Lord is not, except in the cases defined by the Lord.

HALLELUJAH!

If the Son sets you free, ye shall be free indeed! And what you have stated in those blue letters alone is enough assurance for me to know that my work (though it is NOT my work, but the Lord's) is not in vain. For this knowledge my heart rejoices in the Lord that my beloved sister is not held subject to the pharisiacal doctrines of legalist pastors who share little regard for the liberty that True Worshippers have in Jesus! Even now I am moved to tears of gladness... and if this is all that I have helped you in, then I will rejoice and be thankful because it is a hard thing to overcome. It is impossible to overcome without the grace of our merciful Master. See to it that you are never robbed of your liberty in the Lord. God bless you, sister. It is supper time now here, in the Great White North and goodness - the snow is falling again!


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