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DEBATES : John 14
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 Message 1 of 7 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 9/17/2007 6:37 PM
God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself.  If God were Christ, how could he be in him?
 
Jesus said My Father  (did he mean himself?  nope.)  and I are ONE.  then he prayed that we all be ONE   AS  they  are ONE.  John 17.
 
 
Paul stated you are all ONE.  Husband and wife are ONE FLESH.
The church is ONE.  chirst is ONE BODY of many believers.
 
Jesus said if you do it to the least of these my brethren, you do it to ME.
Jesus said, if you receive me,  you receive him that sent me.
 
Jesus said if you receive whom I send, you receive me.
 
So are we all the same person?  course not.  Then now am I Jesus?  How is Jesus me?  How was he in his Father and His Father in him, and we in him and them in us?
 
Ever try to understand this?  If not, you need to.  Pray for understanding, unless you belong to Satan, and care not for truth.
 
Now if all of this be so,  how is it any marvel that Jesus said if you see me , you see the Father?  He is our Father, by the decree of his father,  Heb. one.
and he is the one who begets us to God.  So he is our father and our God,  but the Father is Jesus' God and Jesus' Father.
 
He did the works of the father.  He showed the world the Father by the works and words he taught.  So he said How is it that you did not see (understand) the Father through me?
He did not mean I am the Father and there is not one else.
 
That is false interpretation.


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Reply
 Message 2 of 7 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/17/2007 7:34 PM
Believe me, I know the deception you are under......for I was also at one time under this same deception.....but God himself spoke to me and brought me out of the deception.....
 
Now just study these things without being antagonistic. Read for your own sake....
open your heart up and let God speak to you.......else you will never see truth.....
 
Now.....
I explained how Isa. 9: 6 is........it was NOT speaking of Jesus the Son of Mary........ [please take the time to study my message on Emmanuel]....it is a stationary page here on Bottf........so you can find it easy..
 
Jesus was the  VIRGIN, which bore the manchild........which was the Emmanuel.....which was the beginning>>>>>but the beginning of WHAT?
 
I also have a message here explaining this, the Beginning.
 
It does NOT mean Jesus was the Beginning of eternity.........for eternity had no beginning...it is saying that Jesus is the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF SONS IN GODS IMAGE.........BUT THIS STARTED AT HIS RESURRECTION.
 
Now,  Jesus was the one who brought forth a Son of God in the image of God, not Mary.  That Son of God was Jesus' own perfected life............. same as we must accomplish........at our resurrection.........to bring forth a Son of God into glorification.
 
Jesus is the Virgin who brought forth Emmanuel.....not Mary.  It was Jesus at His own resurrection.  It was the Son of Jesus.  Christ in US, CHRIST IN JESUS..........THE HOPE OF     GLORY. 
 
Glorification..........at resurrection........which will not be accomplished unless we bring forth Christ in our own lives....
 
God set Jesus up on His own throne to be our God and our Father.........this is how Jesus is now almighty.  But this does NOT MEAN JESUS IS GOD.......NOR THAT GOD IS NOT ALMIGHTY......THEY ARE ONE WITH EACH OTHER........NOT  [1].....AS MEANING JUST  [1] BEING.
 
Sure the Father was in Jesus..........BUT......did you never read that Jesus was also IN THE FATHER?
 
Again read John 17.-v22---[have any of you ever read this?]-------And the glory which THOU GAVEST ME.....[see someone GAVE this glory to Jesus]-----I have GIVEN THEM;  [now does this make us God?]---that they may be ONE, EVEN -------AS-----WE  [WE IS PLURAL]---ARE---ONE.
 
v21---that they ALL [how many?}----ALL----may be-----ONE-------; AS----thou [you]---Father, are in me, and I in thee,,,that THEY also may be-----ONE-----in us:  that the world may believe ---[what?  that Jesus is God?  did he say that?}----believe what?-----that thou [ you]....hast SENT ME...........
 
Now Jesus did not say that the world may believe that I am God and that I came to earth,,,,being God in flesh.....now did he?  If this is the truth, then WHY........why......did not Jesus say so?
 
Why are all of you saying something which Jesus himself never taught?
 
If Jesus and His Father being ONE means they are the same 1, then how are we all ONE??  If the Father being IN Jesus made Jesus the Father, then how it is they are in us?  Are we the Father?
 
Better do some serious studying and QUIT listening to lies.
 
Did Not Paul say,  You are ALL......ONE?
 
Did not Jesus also say,  My Father is GREATER THAN I?
 
 
Why is it none of you ever go to that Scripture?  Afraid of truth?  Lies will not save you.  You must believe the truth.
 
Truth must match and fit  ALL SCRIPTURE.  Fit your belief into these Scriptures in John 17
 
Show me where the Word said God came to earth in human flesh........It does not say that.
 
Sure Jesus manifested God..........so did Paul ........and Peter....and John.....and me.

Reply
 Message 3 of 7 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/17/2007 7:39 PM
Lu 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

I ask any of you, please explain the above verse with YOUR  OWN knowledge of the Scriptures.  You will not have truth or eternal life, depending upon what someone else tells you.  You are commanded by Jesus to search the Scriptures for yourself and find truth.

As Jesus was about to DIE, He cried out with a loud voice>>>>>why?  Was he hard of hearing?  Was he speaking to himself? 

these are questions you MUST answer with the Word of God, if you claim to know, desire and have truth.  If he was speaking to himself, why use a loud voice?

Now remember, he has spoken of His Father [as though his Father is someone other than himself all the days of his life, from 12 years old on down to this day of death. ] So now, on that cross Jesus is STILL crying out to another person and calling him Father.

Do you seriously think he is calling himself Father?  Do you really think Jesus was nutty or something?  That is what you make it sound like, saying he called himself his own Father.

But now, watch what he cried out to his father:

"Into thy [your] hands, I commend   MY  [not Father's ] SPIRIT.   Now see, he said I am commending my own spirit into YOUR hands.

Now is all sensibility, how can he be speaking to his own self?  How was he going to commend his own spirit into his own hands?

To say this, is to call the Word of GOD,  FOOLISHNESS.

That is what you Jesus-only people are doing!

Jo


Reply
 Message 4 of 7 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/17/2007 9:40 PM

Psalms 110:1.  The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Now for starters there is one verse in which both Lords are used together.  Now can you not see that this verse clearly states that one being said unto another being, sit at my right hand,  until  I   make THINE enemies thy footstood?

When it said I   will make  THINE enemies......is not this one being speaking to another being?  If not, how would it make any sense?  See that the one doing the speaking, saying I will make YOUR enemies your footstool is spelled with all four letters capital?  and the other Lord is spelled with only one Capital?  This is all through the KING JAMES WORDS OF GOD.

Maybe you just did not know where to look?  But it is so much in there, now could you miss it?

Matt. 22: 42.  saying, What think ye of the Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him,The son of David.
 43.  He saith unto them, How then doth David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, 


 44.  The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I put thine enemies underneath thy feet?
 45.  If David then calleth him Lord, how is he his son?

Now look at verse 44.  If you have a true KJV it will show this.  If you have a deluted and changed version it may not.  See the same verse is repeated here in Matt and still calls one being LORD and he is talking to another Lord?  How can you miss this?  Do you truly read the KJV?

Mark 12:36.  David himself said in the Holy Spirit, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet.

Here is another NT writter saying the same thing.  .....and you could not find it in the KJV?

Luke 20: 42.  For David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
 43.  Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet.

This is three NT writters saying the same thing.....God really wanted to nail this down, didn't he?

1Cor. 15: 24.  Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Now there it is made clear that the LORD was speaking of God, even the Father.

Now for full, solid proof:

Heb. 1: 5.  For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? and again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?

[Now the above verse is clearly the Father speaking to the Son, agree?]


 6.  And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

[Here God the Father tells all the angels to worship his Son.]


 7.  And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels winds, And his ministers a flame a fire:


 8.  but of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
 9.  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

[In these two verses, God sets his Son upon the throne of God and makes him to be God with God.

v9...Therefore God (here he is speaking to his Son and calling him God)..thy (your) God (speaking of the Father as the God of Jesus)....hath anointed thee........[saying that God the Father anointed his Son.....]......We are told in another verse in Heb. that Jesus did not anoint himself.


 10.  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands: 

[this is speaking of after the resurrection when he, the beginning, Jesus brought in the new heaven and the new earth, = the NT Grace.


 11.  They shall perish; but thou continuest: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
 12.  And as a mantle shalt thou roll them up, As a garment, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, And thy years shall not fail.


 13.  But of which of the angels hath he said at any time, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet?

[Now in the above verse it makes it crystal clear that the Father was the one of whom it was said that the LORD said to the Lord, sti thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies they footstool......I really don't see how anyone who can read could miss this.]


 14.  Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to do service for the sake of them that shall inherit salvation?



 

And sure God had no beginning.......that is exactly the point.  Jesus was not God.  He was only made to be God there in Heb. 1, after his resurrection and ascention to Heaven.  He was set on the throne of God by God and made to be God to all of us.

His Father is LORD.  and he is Lord.

Now if you cannot see that, you need to study the KJV a little closer.

...and another thing, don't pay any attention to these truth haters who try to cast doubt on the pure Word of God, the KJV.


Reply
 Message 5 of 7 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/17/2007 10:48 PM
Not one single Scripture says Jesus had a divine nature.

Where is one single verse saying that Jesus was God from all eternity?  find that.

Where is one single verse saying that Jesus had a divine nature?  show me that in Scripture.  Just because some man says a thing, does NOT MAKE IT TRUE.  Just because millions and millions X millions says a thing  DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.

 

It must be written in Scripture to be true.  So where are those statements written in Scripture. 

His going forth of old is merely speaking of it having been prophecied.  Many other Scripture use this kind of speech,  speaking that God spoke it from of old.  It was prophecied of old that he died on the cross.  Yet it did not take place until the time.

John 1: 1-2,  does not even mention Jesus.  It is speaking of the word.  verse 14 is speaking of the Word that dwelt richly in Jesus until it caused Jesus to comform to the image of God and come forth at his resurrection in the Holy Image of God.  The word clearly teaches that there was no glory in the son of man before his resurrection.  Why does the whole world ignore this FACT?  Because they love lies.

Jesus himself said he had to suffer first, then to enter into his GLORY.  Read Romans 1:4.   Eat his FLESH.

Why will you both not deal with this?  seek for truth. Knock and it shall be opened.  seek and ye shall find.  Seek.  Ask. Pray.  Knock.  else you will go on believing man's lies.

Jesus, the man, was not the FLESH which was the glory of God, nor the flesh which the Word was made into,  which we must  EAT  TO HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

YOU HAD BETTER GET HOLD OF THIS.  You must drink his blood to have eternal life.  You better learn how to do this.  what is his blood?  Where was his glory?  it was certainly  NOT in the man who died on the cross.  That was no glory.

Heb. 1:8  happened after the resurrection, after Jesus ascended up on high.  I have already explained all of this to you and bill over and over. You and he do not read it. You forget it all.

Sure I have told you God made Jesus to be our God then.  not before.  I do not deny that Jesus is our God.  but he is not God.  He is God's Son, whom God set up to be our God.  He married the Lord God and that is how he became God.  He was NOT GOD ON EARTH.

God did not die.  God was not born from Mary.  when will you accept this truth. Jesus was NOT GOD BEFORE HE BORN ON EARTH.

No Scripture says this.  You are adding to the word to say this.  (not you personally, but all who say it.  So if you repeat it, you are guilty also).  If you believe it you are guilty.

Now this explains all the other verses in this post.  Isa was speaking of the resurrected Christ as the child who was born to us.  It was not the baby Jesus.

 

 


Reply
 Message 6 of 7 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/20/2007 11:12 PM

~~ Whom do you say he is? ~~

Mt 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Mt 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Mt 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Mt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Whom do men say that Jesus is? Whom do you say He is? Almost all men say he is God…he is God robed in flesh…he is God incarnate…he is God in humanity, …he is the humanity of God�?he is God’s flesh…etc.

I cannot find any of that written in Scripture�?so where do they get that? It is important, or Jesus would not have gone to this discussion.

Notice, in verse 14, that none of those of their day thought that Jesus was God. That was not any of the opinions of man, of that day. They thought he might be one of the prophets, but not one of them said they thought he might be God. It never entered their minds that Jesus was God.

But Jesus nailed it down to you personally. Who do you say he is? Peter, who do you say he is? Now the truth is the answer Peter gave, for Jesus verified this and nailed it down as the foundation upon which he builds his church. So unless you have the same revelation, you are not on the right foundation.

What was Peter’s answer? Did Peter say, I believe that you are God? No way. Did he say I believe that you are God in human flesh. Nope. Did he say, you are God incarnate? No.

Why do you all not deal with this? You asked for proof that Jesus is not God. Here it is. Peter had the true revelation from God the Father. If you cannot believe this, you have no faith at all.

Mt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Now that is the only true answer the Word of God gives us. Man made up the lie that Jesus is God.

By: Jo Smith �?Sept. 20, 2007

 


Reply
 Message 7 of 7 in Discussion 
From: freeborn11Sent: 10/3/2007 2:56 PM
well, hello again.
 
Proved you CANNOT take any truth!  I knew you could not take the pure word much longer.
 
Post it to the world.  No one here is seeking any truth, for when it is put in your faces, you reject it and run and can do nothing but spew out evil, ugly name calling.
 
But see, you could not keep me out if you wished to do so.
 
but do not fear,  I will not stay.  Had not intended to come back before, but you had to goad me into it. 
 
 I have no desire to deal with such evil speaking dogs.  Knew you could not discuss Scripture.  You have none to deal with.  that is really what you hate, not me.  You hate it that I have pure Scripture to teach, and you have none.
 
So now.  Slander me on and on.  but you proved you cannot take any truth.  You are sons of Satan.
 
Satan is a MALE you know.  he is not a female.
 
Jesus is the seed of the WOMAN, EVE, you know.
 
So hate her on, too.  Jesus put down the men from their SEATS,   (means place of rulership, you know,)  and EXHALTED them of low degree,  (means the trodden down WOMEN, you know).
 
So go fight with HIM.  He did it.
 
He sent a flood because of men taking more than one wife, you know.
 
No Sons of God existed since then, until Jesus came, preaching that it must go back to the beginning, of the WIFE being the one and only one.
Wife of youth  = wife of the Covenant.  Mal.
 
What Covenant?  Grace.  The one you father, old Satan Adam threw away.
 
So no one is in Grace who has two.
 
And don't forget,  Jesus called it FIVE HUSBANDS.
 
sO YOU Ladies,  go get yourselves five husbands.
 
After all,  Jesus did not rebuke her for having FIVE HUSBANDS.
 
Watch out.  Here comes the foaming-at-the-mouth, mad dogs!
 
By, by.  enjoy yourselves.  Hell awaits you at the end of the way.  You have rejected the Grace Covenant, for the dead old law covenant.
and you wish to teach others to do the same.  bad, bad, bad you.
 
FREEBORN
Don't forget, Jesus said she had FIVE HUSBANDS.
So ladies, go get yourselves five husbands.  Jesus did not rebuke her for her five husbands.  that is KJV you know.  and even greater, it comes under the New Testament.

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