Update!

Hi all, Thunder went to his First Day at Puppy school today.  It was really bad.  To say the least he attacked both teachers.  He bit into the one really badly, got her really good.  Thankfully, we've figured out what mainly sets him off into these tantrums.  So we're working on how to get rid of those.  The teacher said if this attitude continues more than a few months he'll never get out of it.  So the bf and I are prepared for the worst right now.
Other than the bitting and all that, he did very well.  He reacted to the sit, heal, laydown, stand, and forward very well.  We hope that these puppy classes will help.  Have your fingers crossed for us, we'll need it, lol.

Keiko       (and Thunder   )

Hi!  Ooo - I'm sorry to hear about Thunder's aggression troubles.  Please don't punish him by putting him in his crate though - that should be a comfortable and safe place for him to be when you guys aren't around. 

 

If he loves attention, you can punish him by scowling at him and then turning your back on him and ignoring him.  This works with some dogs, but they have to be real people oriented and the "do anything to please you" type and that doesn't sound like your Thunder...  

 

One of my best friends had to put her 1 1/2 yr old female German Shepard down last year because she became so aggressive and too big and unpredictable to control.  It was like, one day she just snapped and went nuts.  Very sad... I hope the obedience training works for your pup.  One other thing, did your vet check him since this started?

Shelter

Oh yes he's been to the vets about this.  He even attacked the vet.  I've done the ignoring with Thunder it does work a little.  Until he finds something else to bite or chase after.  He has since going to the puppy school gotten a bit better.  He's only gotten me good once since yesterday which is a huge improvement.  He normally goes at me several times an hour, so I really hope he's gonna grow out of this.  Thanks for your thoughts Shelter, I'll keep everyone posted.

Keiko   

Hi Keiko,

 

I just read your posting and since I have 6 dogs I thought I might be able to shed some light on what Thunder's doing.  Dogs as you know are a pack animal.  Your puppy although small knows that in all packs there is an Alpha Dog.  You and your boyfriend need to make sure he knows who that Alpha Dog is.  I'm not sure where you are at but where I am in California I remember taking my dog Storm who being Newfoundland would be 125#'s easily so I wanted to make sure he was trained.  At one of the trainings they taught us the dominance hold.  It's basically a hold you do when your dog is misbehaving and it doesn't hurt them one bit but they do get the idea of Who is boss as you are laying ontop of them and holding them in a way that they cannot move.  You hold this hold until they stop fighting/squirming etc.  Once they stop the fussing you release their legs from the hold still being over them and see if they stay in that possition.  If they do then you can get up and go about your business as usual.  If they do not, you get them right back into the hold and try again.  This is the same behavior they would experience if they were out in the wild in their pack and got out of line with the Alpha Male.  It doesn't take them long to figure out they are not boss but if they do misbehave in the future it also acts as a little reminder about who is really boss.  Ask your puppy trainer about this hold and hopefully they know what I'm talking about and can show you.  I rarely is ever have to use it on any of my dogs as they all are fully aware that MOM is Alpha Dog and I'm the boss.

 

Also with Thunder being such a young dog I highly doubt the issues are from being abused however, if he was the runt of the litter and if he had to fight for his food from mom and ever after he went to solid food that could be why he's so agressive and he's trying to make you and your BF aware that he's Alpha dog.  You MUST make sure you are seen as the Alpha Dog in the home otherwise you will be in for a handful.  Rotts as you know are very powerful and so you need to gain the control right from the gitgo.

 

Oh yeah...if they have a spray there called Bitter Apple buy some of that and the next time he bites you spray a tiny bit in his mouth.  It's made for animals and he will soon make the connection of Nasty Taste with Biting..  I could probably go on and on since I've had dogs of all shapes and sizes all my life but try those things first and see how they work out for you.

 

TTFN - Mary

This link is a good one for you to read

http://www.ipass.net/wrweber/dominance.html

This site had info on biting and on the Dominance hold (which I've attached.

http://vermilionkennels.com/information-and-training/

PUPPY DOMINANCE HOLD

Control of the pup/dog is something that each individual member of the family needs to do. If you as the parent have control that control doesn’t extend to the kids! So you will have to help the children gain control of the pup. Kids can do this on their own, however, some times they don’t get the idea. Frankly, sometimes adults don’t either�?so listen up!

The dominance hold is a great place to start. You aren’t going to be hurting your pup or a dog, just maintaining control and communicating to the dog that you are in charge.

Every member of the family needs to do this some time during the day! No dog is too big for this�?.even little arms of children can be helped along to accomplish this.

Pick up your pup and hold him/her firmly under your arm while sitting on the couch, a lounge chair, or on the floor. The point is you are controlling the dog.

Eventually, the pup will stop squirming and relax. When you feel that relaxation, praise the pups using his/her name and your praising voice ( high pitched rather than low for scolding). I usually say, “Good puppy, good girl�?and might talk gently and sweetly to him/her.

Hold the pup there for a minute or two ( 10 seconds might be all at first) but increase the time and do NOT let go for any reason that the dog creates! Make it a successful exercise through the use of physical force if necessary.

This hold helps the pup/dog learn who is in charge! And it works. It also lays the ground work for all other training!

The hold is great, I use it a few times a day now.  He hasn't had a fit of rage since he went to puppy school which is amazing.  He is just very nippy with his playing right now, and he doesn't know his own strength so it's a bit trying at times.  I hope with a little time he will improve.  Mind you, he sits on command now which makes me very happy (just the fact that he is learning).  He even lays down and stands with a tiny bit of coaxing.  I am very pleased of his progress thus far, I just hope he grows out of this bitting.  Thank you all for your support, I really do appreciate it!

Thanks again,

Keiko    

Another update.

Thunder is doing about the same.  He is still bitting like you wouldn't believe.  It's hard for me to remember that he's still a puppy at times.  I've only ever had smaller dogs before, and Thunder is the size of the biggest dog that I've had (Shelty).  He's two months and a day today, I'd say he's about 20 - 23 pounds.  He's a big boy, lol (his teeth are even bigger, lol).  He's got the sit perfectly now, he does it when I  say "Sit" and give a hand signal.  He does it when I just say "Sit" alone.  He also will do it when I just give the hand signal too.  That I am very pleased about!  I'm still working on the "Down" and "Stand" with him, which he is improving every day more and more.  I must work on that sort of stuff with him at least 20 times a day.  I guess that would be why he is getting better at it.  Anyway, I just thought I would update everyone on how he is doing.  I'll post after his next puppy class (this last one went great, the trainer is very impressed with his improvement).

TATA

Keiko   

Keiko:  Oh yay, that's good he's doing a little better!  He sounds like a smartie- hopefully he'll be a well-behaved sweetie-smartie after puppy school is done. 

 

CampnGirl:  great websites and advice!

 

Shelter

Yes I hope so too Shelter!  He is doing much better now.  The bitting isn't as hard or as much.  I've been giving him ice cubes and frozen pop bottles (he loves them).  He's playing more with his toys now instead of wanting to play with my fingers or feet, lol.  I've been finding that he's been testing the bf tho.  I think it's just because he works 6 days a week and I only work 2 so I spend more time with him.  He's starting to come when he's called, which is great.  Anywho, I thought I'd give you another update, he is finally starting to get better.  But I do know there's a wee bit until he's totally out of this bitting thing.  Keep your fingers crossed for when he grows up that he doesn't go crazy.  lol, I'm thinkin he'll be okay.

Thanks again for your posts and your help,

Keiko   

Frozen pop bottles?!  lol!  I guess they'd be like - giant, doggie teething rings for him huh? 

 

I miss having a dog.  Once we move into a bigger place, I do plan on adopting a dog.  My girlfriend's daughter has a young american bulldog she needs a home for, if he's still available when the time comes, I'd have him in a heartbeat.  There are so many breeds that I love, but right now American bulldogs are my favorites.  I want a dog who will bark at anyone who thinks they can walk into my house and make them think twice about doing so (ie:  my ex-husband who thinks he can waltz through my house if the door's unlocked - ugh!!!!! I have to clear his energy out of my house when he sets foot in here, can't stand it!), but not actually BITE anyone (no offense, Thunder ).

 

The best dog I ever had was an all white German sheperd, his name was Raki and I spend all my spare time training him when I was 16.  He could read my mind, I swear it.  We'd be walking in the neighborhood and a strange man would be walking on the other side of the street and if I felt scared or nervous of him, Raki would just STARE at the guy - not bark or growl, but just watch him till he was out of our sight.  I could tell Raki to carry something for me and he'd do it, like a small bag or magazine or whatever - he was the coolest and smartest ever.  I know it was all the training he went through with me - it really bonds you to your dog I think, not just that he learns the commands, but you are together on a deeper level somehow also.  I know Raki was so happy when I was happy with his behavior and proud of what I had taught him.  Most dogs are sooo eager to please and honest and open souls, I just love them!

 

I'm so glad you're working with Thunder and not simply giving him up.  Not everyone should own an aggresive breed and I think there are many people who decide they want one, then are disappointed and/or frightened when their dog challenges them. 

You know, Keiko, I just thought of something - is Thunder neutered yet?  If not, maybe that would make some difference in his attitude?  Is his biting fear-based or is he just an alpha type?

 

M-kay, hope things are still improving day by day with him

Shelter

Hi ya Shelter,

I keep hearing more and more about white german's.  To be honest I've never seen one, but I keep hearing about how lovely a dog they are.  Everyone that I've spoken to said that they will only get a white german if they were to get a larger dog.  As for you getting a bulldog, I love them too.  There's a pet store downtown (where I'm from) and the owner of the store always brings in her doggies.  She has a Momma bull and her baby bull.  I tell ya Mom is so cute and so well trained, honestly really not what I had thought bulldogs were like at all.  The baby (which is her's) is only 4 months and hyper but still a lovely little one.

Yes, Thunder LOVES frozen water bottles.  I had never thought of it before either quite honestly.  I had found out about it once while the bf and I were at puppy school and the trainer had suggested it.  When I don't have a frozen 1 L bottle I give him an ice cube, which is sooooo cute to watch him chase around, lol.  I just have to watch that he actually doesn't forget about it b/c we have hardwood floors.

As for Thunder getting fixed, YES he will be fixed when he's old enough.  He's only 2 months and a week right now, so he's way too young.  The vet suggested as soon as his testicles drop (and not too long after) to get him fixed.  I hope I can do it soon, mind you I won't get it done before 4 and a half months.  I'd like him to be almost done his puppy stage before he gets it done, I've heard negative things if it's done too early.  I had gotten my eldest cat (his name is Keiko that's where I get my name from, lol) fixed at 5 months because he was sick and a little frisky.  He turned out just fine and now he's not sick!  So yes I will totally be getting him fixed (the big SNIP) as soon as his "pills" (that's what I call them) drop.  The vet said that getting it done will totally help with this agression, oh I can't wait.

I will say tho he is slowly getting a bit better.  He hasn't had a hissy fit in quite a long time.  He's spending more and more time outside and in his crate.  He hasn't gotten the full idea of peeing and pooping outside yet, but I'm sure it will come with time.  He's starting to like his crate too, he sleeps in it for a few hours every day now (most of the time without crying).

He's starting not to chase my Keiko as much. He used to do the dominant thing where he'd step on him and hold him down on the floor.  Keiko would have enough and bite him on the ear.  Thunder is starting to get the idea not to do it, lol, (key word starting, lol).  As for my other kitty Precious, well that's another story.  She's starting to come out more often now, even when he's not sleeping.  Thunder put the chase on her last night I thought she was going to die of a heart attack, it wasn't funny.  Her short half tail that she has was all puffed up and she was just a hissin.  She hasn't come out at all today, I think she's just scared.

Anyway, enough talking negative stuff.  I hope you do get a doggy, it is tons of fun (most of the time).  I had lived in a college dorm for three years and therefore couldn't have any animals and it almost killed me.  I've always had pets and for these three years I couldn't even have a fish.  That unconditional love goes a long way!

Best of LUCK gettin a doggy!!!

Keiko       and   Thunder     

Hey guys,

Thought I'd let ya's know that I've decided to give Thunder away.  I can't handle it, he's too much of a dog for me.  I'm looking into some ppl that said they would take him if I couldn't, and yes he will go to a good home.  I do feel bad, but as we've talked about you really need to have the time and patience for this sort of dog.  Right now I don't.  Talk to you all later,

Keiko     

Awww Keiko, I'm so sorry!  I really hope they can take care of him.  He really does sound like he needs a lot of extra attention and a firm hand! 

 

Shelter

I have two words for you....Cesar Millan .

 

If you watch his show regulary you can learn alot.

 

                                    TAZyaqui