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Anything Goes : A question for Americans that baffles me
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(2 recommendations so far) Message 1 of 121 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknamethree-colours-scarlet  (Original Message)Sent: 9/10/2008 12:19 p.m.
Hi all

I am really baffled. Really baffled. So maybe some of you could enlighten me.

I watched the presidential debate late last night and it got me thinking.

Why DO ordinary Americans not demand that their taxes, THEIR OWN hard earned cash, fund a Universal Free Health Service based on need? Or for that matter a state pension providing a decent standard of living for all.

To me its quite simple - you cut out the fat cat middle men - the insurance companies - and any money channelled into tax credits for health insurance etc is just directly put into the new system that takes no notice of anything other than patient need - regardless of pre existing conditions. To me that part of it was the most shocking. You are disadvantaged and discriminated against if you have a pre existing condition??? Wow that's just terrible.

I am so glad I live in the UK believe me. We will fight tooth and nail to support our National Health Service. No politician would ever dare to go against this. It would mean political suicide.

To me, saying this to you all, is akin to helping someone realise they have been abused, used, manipulated and severely let down. Do you not think? I mean why is it WE can do it and you can't?

Can you tell me WHY you have put up with this and do you believe that is ever possible to change the mindset in American society?





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Reply
 Message 107 of 121 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamebellandgieaSent: 4/11/2008 11:48 p.m.
 
The business owners are making a livng off the sweat of their employees backs.
 
Um, how are business owners supposed to run a business if they don't have employees to do the work?  If I hire a person to do a job and they want the job, I pay them at a rate they agree on.  If they don't like the job, if  they think they can make more elsewhere or want to do something different, by all means, go do it!
 
Ah, ok, maybe I should have said rolling in the dough off the sweat of their employees backs.  Maybe you aren't one of those rolling in the dough while your employees go without insurance.  My point was had you looked at it a little deeper and read my whole post you would have seen that.  Maybe if you had bills coming in from the hospital and doctor that you can't pay you have a different additude.  You picked one line out of my post and focused on that.  Sheesh, kinda makes me feel like the exn did.  Maybe that's been my problem all my life, I give people the benefit of the doubt.  I'd like so see everyone have health care.  What about you?
 

Reply
 Message 108 of 121 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamebellandgieaSent: 4/11/2008 11:53 p.m.
I'll stay out of these discussions from now on.  I don't need anyone jumping down my throat, I got away from that.  I was stating my opinion to the OP.

Reply
 Message 109 of 121 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknamethree-colours-scarletSent: 5/11/2008 1:32 a.m.
Thanks Bella

Looks like according to the BBC that Obama's done it!!!! He'll have a tough time with the current mess he'll inherit and he won't be able to do it all at once but he will work TOWARDS making the changes needed to redistribute the wealth that's required to get a fairer more balanced society over there. I hope everyone is patient with him. Be patient with him. What I get as the most valuable trait of his is that I don't think he will ever be afraid to admit it if he gets the odd thing wrong. No arrogance and no lies. I am sure he will tell it like it is right from the beginning. I'm SO happy for you all!!

And the rest of the world can breathe a huge sigh of relief!!


Reply
 Message 110 of 121 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknamenot_obeisantSent: 11/11/2008 3:55 a.m.
FYI, 3 colours:

Your sentiments echoed in Frank Rich's column:

"We felt good not only because we had breached a racial barrier as old as the Republic. Dawn also brought the realization that we were at last emerging from an abusive relationship with our country’s 21st-century leaders. The festive scenes of liberation that Dick Cheney had once imagined for Iraq were finally taking place �?in cities all over America."

  • http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/09/opinion/09rich.html?em


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    The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 111 of 121 in Discussion 
    Sent: 11/11/2008 2:27 p.m.
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    The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 112 of 121 in Discussion 
    Sent: 11/11/2008 2:38 p.m.
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    Reply
     Message 113 of 121 in Discussion 
    From: XtraMSN Nicknamethree-colours-scarletSent: 11/11/2008 2:40 p.m.
    (Sorry my deletes - grammatical errors!! Writing too quick - feel too passionate about this lol!!)
     
    For eight years, we’ve been told by those in power that we are small, bigoted and stupid �?easily divided and easily frightened.
     
    WOW!!  I was right!!!  I knew it. ABUSIVE!!!  I could see it just like when you are in a relationship with an N sometimes its only the people on the outside that can see it.
     
    You see the Bush administration - and OF COURSE - if the Republicans got in they would have carried on - the Bush Administration used the age old tactic of DIVIDE AND RULE and INSTILL FEAR to control.
     
    On one person's suggestion I have started reading Rush Limbaugh's site and the transcript of his radio shows listened to by millions (so I am told).  After all he is 'the voice of Americans'.  Well I wasn't just a bit gobsmacked I was profoundly disturbed.  It hit a chord with me that scared the shit out of me.  He incites hatred. though daily he argues he doesn't.  But that is what he DOES do.  He would not be allowed to air here.  He would probably end up in jail for incitement to hatred.  We have laws against this that landed Moslem fundamentalist extremist mullahs coaching young British Moslems to become suicide bombers, in jail.  Rush Limbaugh may not overtly be encouraging someone to assassinate Obama - but that will be the result of his hate campaign - that apparently so many Americans take as gospel..  He is lauded by many - its absolutely terrifying.  And all these people claim to be Christians!!! WTF!!!!  I went on the 'All hail Rush Limbaugh' fan site on Facebook and said a thing or to in a non threatening way in a way to help people question their bigotry.  Amazingly so far I haven't be banned.  A Canadian man has applauded me for entering the lion's den and joined me.  But those people have SUCH CLOSED MINDS!!!! Its like negotiating with hyenas.
     
    Thankyou Not Obeisant for validating what I feel.
     
    Do you think this could cause the break up of the United States?  Because the country is no longer United is it?  Is a divorce on the cards for the future?  Its largely geographical isn't it? The Republicans have to be chipped away at over the next few years otherwise, people like Rush hounded out of existence, he is a cancer in the nation - and Republicans need their  fears found to be without substance for the United States to survive as a unified nation in my humble opinion.
     
    I mean who would have EVER thought that recycling could become such a national obsession as it is in the UK.  I used to think my hippy friends were a bit nuts a few years ago because they recycled - and now everyone is doing it.  The white working class council estates where some of the most bigoted people live complained and resisted the loudest. Who would have thought it would become socially inacceptable to drive your kids to school in the city in a petrol guzzling 4 wheel drive.  But it is socially unacceptable today. The middle classes who thought being able to afford a 4 wheel drive as a badge of success are being shamed into buying smaller more economic cars. 
     
    These changes in perception and society values is called the Zeitgeist and it is constantly shifting.  Its evolution in motion.  America needs to leave these dinosaurs behind.
     
    That interview with Sarah Palin - I'm sorry - she may well be charismatic, she may well be able to fire people up - but as a world leader????  Oh my god - I watched THAT interview - with Katie Couric.  I know more than Sarah does about world affairs!!! Most telling - apart from allegedly thinking South Africa was the southern part of a country called Africa - she could name NO periodicals she reads and hasn't even travelled outside of the US till recently - well that says it all.  And she stumbled throughout the interview becasue she was WAY out of her depth. How could a potential world leader and president (as was entirely possible) of a country as powerful as the US be so ignorant?  Its beggars belief.  Of course I am guessing but this is the general consesus over here - most of Rush Limbaugh's disciples have never set foot outside of their country either and seem to have no desire to.  Some have probably never even left their state!  So beyond the US is NOT REAL to them.  It is another planet - difficult to have compassion when you barely see people beyond your borders as human.
     
    Scarlet xxx

    Reply
     Message 114 of 121 in Discussion 
    From: XtraMSN NicknamewolfieshollerSent: 12/11/2008 1:01 p.m.
    Boy...great posts, thanks!!!

    I don't get it, myself. I can sort of see abuse and genetic mutation landing us a Fresh Limburger (Let's face it, Rush is just plain stinky cheese)....but to have followers?????

    What's next? Hitler on Ice?

    I live in PA where "Whatcha hunt?" is "How do you do?" But...wow...come on!!

    My wasband didn't agree with the man but for some reason loved to listen to Limburger. I had to have him turn him off when I was around. It made me physically ill.

    I told a friend I wanted to put an Obama sign on my lawn, but I was afraid while someone was shooting it, they'd miss and hit my cat.

    The KKK meets in a park around the corner. UNREAL!!
    A friend lives near the park and got tired of hearing them and snuck in and put tacks behind their tires. lol

    A man was beaten to death just because he was black and dating a white woman in the next town.

    I honestly don't get it....and they all call themselves Christian.

    I don't get these people. But, hey, we made a pretty good statement this time around in the voting booths. It feels real encouraging no matter what.

    Reply
     Message 115 of 121 in Discussion 
    From: XtraMSN Nicknamethree-colours-scarletSent: 12/11/2008 11:56 p.m.
    Wolfie....the stories you have just told me in that relatively short post above. I feel sick..... SHOOTING at your Obama sign. KKK???? WHAT century do they bloody live in for god's sake. I have had to give up being reasonable on the All Hail Rush Limbaugh facebook group. I have had too much abuse. It is always personal, it is always aggressive, it is always accusing me of being ignorant and stupid and what I don't get, a couple of times I have been accused of being self-loathing. Don't get that. I have tried to be very nice to them to.

    How sorry I feel that so many of you have had to put up with this all these months.

    One thing they often say is 'Obama has never run anything'. Well what THEY don't get is that that doesn't really matter. He can get other people to run/manage things. He's the inspiration. He's a visionary. He's an academic. He's a thinker. He's the school principle with the vision to take his children forward.

    We do have the British National Party here (link below) and they are a really nasty lot that get their foot in the door in poor white working class council estates where there are, particularly asian, communities nearby. I love my asian neighbours. All of them. they are such nice people but the younger ones have started to fight back. Anyway these BNP nazis are just racist thugs inciting racial hatred in their communities and have been exposed several times on TV...good old BBC and Channel 4. But they STILL have elected officials on some councils.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>The BNP is "committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948."[20] The BNP also proposes "firm but voluntary incentives for immigrants and their descendants to return home<<<<<<<<<<

    Their banner??? Their logo??? Why of course its the Union Jack (our flag)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party

    Scarlet xxx

    Reply
     Message 116 of 121 in Discussion 
    From: XtraMSN NicknameKitcat08Sent: 13/11/2008 12:01 a.m.
    Rush Limbaugh is NOT the "voice of Americans".  OMG, whatta bunch of bunk.  Intelligent people know he is a WINGNUT.  And that's putting it nicely.  Have you seen him talk....he's flailing all around, spitting....just nasty.  Don't give him credit for anything.  According to him, this country's problems are minorities, single women, and liberals.  I guess most of us are not welcome in our own country, according to him. 
     
    I live in Oregon.  We are pretty liberal here.  Not much for hate crimes.  I lived near SanFransico also.  I really came to love my minority friends.    They are some of the least selfish, most giving people there are. 
     
    Then I spend some time with my family in rural Minnesota.  For the most part, Minnesotan politics are progressive enough.  The gov'ner decleared himself a "pragmatic republican".  My family is like "backwoods" in their politics.  They would never vote for Obama because he is black.  And the message they got from the NRA(National Rifle Ass'n) is that Obama is going to take their guns away.  I bet my Nbro has made some new semi-automatic purchases recently.    I made a lovely friend while I was home.  A beautiful older lady who spoke with a German accent.  She came looking for me one day, and found my parent's place first.  According to them "some woman was looking for me, but you couldn't understand her".    I KNOW racism is alive and well in this country.  Sad.  I hope Obama makes it to serve as president.  It is in the back of everyone's minds, I'm sure.
     
    CNN reported more threats on Obama's life when Sarah Palin questioned his patriotism.  This is where the problem starts, with people like Limbaugh and Palin.  However we can't control it because we have Freedom Of Speech.  Which is a good thing.    I WISH radio stations were boycotted from airing Limbaugh, but as you can see, he has quite a following.  I wonder how responsible he might be for hate crimes in this country? 
     
    This country is not going to break up.  The Republicans have recognized that they have been stagnant, and American wants change.  We want our country back.  And we HOPE Obama is the man who can do it. 
     
    I wondered how much GWBush personal wealth has grown since he's been in office.  So I tried searching and came up with almost nothing except a Wiki answer with no source sited.   I thought his tax returns and net worth were public knowledge.  I must be wrong.    I found an estimate of his net worth, but nothing that says how much it's grown since he's been in office.    I beleive he is world player, and has made alot of money since he's been in office, but I have no proof. 
     
    I don't think Sarah Palin could get elected president.  I think she was "eye candy" for JMs campaign.  Notice how the man surrounded himself with beautiful women.  Even his campaign manager was gorgeous.   
     
    I googled Obama and Narcisism.  The consensus was that he could very well be.  I then tried GW.  OMG, he had psychologists diagnosing him without having seen him, unethical, but they couldn't seem to help themselves.  According to my findings, GW is quite the N. 
     
    Back to Limbaugh, I wonder about women who listen to him.  Are they seeking out abuse, even in What they choose to listen to?
     

    Reply
     Message 117 of 121 in Discussion 
    From: XtraMSN Nicknamethree-colours-scarletSent: 13/11/2008 12:56 a.m.
    I know Kitcat. I have made quite a personal study on the man....as a great distraction from feeling sad...I just felt angry and sick. I WATCHED him on Youtube doing one of his programmes. He has a barely concealed glint of hate all the way through. nasty, nasty man.

    From wiki...

    Limbaugh is sharply critical of feminism, saying that "Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society.

    How CAN women KNOW this and yet STILL listen to him. I mean there were lots of women on that All Hail Rush Limbaugh site.

    AND I read his transcript branding all SINGLE women as stupid and ignorant and blaming them for Obama's election.

    WHAT an effing dinosaur. He reminds me of a big fat white rascist Afrikaan in the days of Apartheid in South Africa - you know that lot who threw Nelson Mandela in jail for 26 years.

    Yeah they were all going on about their guns being taken away by Obama on the fan site too. I asked politely "Why do you actually need guns? What do you need them for? Who do you use them on? What do you use them on?" Answers were to protect their property from trespassers and to hunt for food. Hmm we don't seem to need to do that in the UK. I mean gun crime is on the up but your average person wouldn't dream of buying a gun.

    I have not really been watching TV this week. More threats on Obama's life? Its so, so scary. If anything unimaginably horrible happens, this Limbaugh nazi needs to be implicated.

    Scarlet xxx

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    The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 118 of 121 in Discussion 
    Sent: 13/11/2008 5:58 a.m.
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    Reply
     Message 119 of 121 in Discussion 
    From: had enoughSent: 20/11/2008 3:14 a.m.
    And talking about "small business owners". The economy is looking so grim right now, pre-Obama, that we will be lucky if in 6 months time that there will be any small businesses left for Obama to tax (if they are making a profit of over $250,000 a year, and the tax raise he has proposed is only a 3% raise).
    I am terrified about what we are seeing happen. It seems that a huge majority of the American workers are about to be laid off at the end of the year. Most people I've talked with aren't going to buy Christmas presents for others, and will stay home this Christmas. All businesses, big and small are in a crisis situation right now. Workers who are laid off from these companies are losing their health benefits and retirements, Cobra health is extremely expensive. People will become grateful for any government health help they can get.
    I'm worried that we aren't too far away from food lines.
    We all need to pray that Obama can bring a positive change- and soon- after he is sworn in.
     
    Hugs,
    Had

    Reply
     Message 120 of 121 in Discussion 
    From: XtraMSN NicknameKitcat08Sent: 25/11/2008 4:12 a.m.
    Obama plans on hitting the ground running. It seems he can't wait til Jan. 20 and neither can this country!

    Cobra for us was $1300 a month. Not an answer at all.

    Small businesses are really suffering. Last night we went out for dinner, and the place was empty except for us. and we would not have been there if not for my BD. On the way home we looked at other eating establishments. Pizza Hut was the only one with a decent amount of people. One other that served alcohol had a few cars in the lot. Sad. Even the grocery stores are cutting back in our town(OR) . My son has lost hours at a Home Depot in CA. It's not good all over. The service sector is suffering, retail is suffering, production is suffering, home sales....there isn't any area that isn't in trouble right now.

    Christmas is for the kids this year. I plan on buyig my son a bit...he's 19 with his own job, so I am not going overboard with him at all. And my daughter even got less for her BD this fall....we'll try to have a nice Xmas for her.

    At least this is an interesting time we are in. I discovered the Huffington Post. An internet Newspaper run by Arianna Huffington. I really like it.

    My husband says you'll know the economy is collapsing when they start cancelling TV show for lack of sponsors. YIKES! I hope it never comes to that.

    Reply
     Message 121 of 121 in Discussion 
    From: had enoughSent: 26/11/2008 4:06 a.m.
    I heard today from someone on a local school board that they are even thinking about laying off teachers because the govts. can't afford to pay them. What a disgrace! I wonder if "they" will bail out the teachers like Wall Street and Citibank?
    Hugs,
    Had Enough

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