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| | (1 recommendation so far) | Message 1 of 22 in Discussion |
| | From: nemo10 (Original Message) | Sent: 27/10/2008 7:43 p.m. |
Does anyone have any suggestions about supervised visits...My son is having to go thru these awful visits with 2 complete strangers and I am worried sick the whole 2 hours. I picked him up yesterday and his eyes were all red and puffy and I asked the lady how he did and she said fine..I did not seem that way at all. The other issue is that I am worried that the monitor lady is getting to involved in the visit rather than the father? How can I find out what is going on? |
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Hi there, Nemo10.....
I am a professional custody monitor. You say that your son is having to go through visits with 2 complete strangers. Are their 2 monitors at each visit? Are the visits being done at a visitation facility or are they off-site?
Unfortunately not all monitors have been properly trained. Quality monitors are generally members of The Supervised Visitation Network.
How old is your son? How many visits has your son had so far?
A "professional" monitor documents every detail of a visit between a child(ren) and their non-custodial parent. Upon request from either parent or the court the monitor is required to generate a report and to provide the details of a visit (most monitors charge $100 and up for a report).
A custody monitor is there to observe visits, document and to assure that everyone is behaving in an appropriate manner and that all parties are SAFE. Custody monitors are NOT babysitters. It is the responsibility of the non-custodial parent to take care of a child's needs during visitations.
I am happy to answer any of your questions.
Best wishes,
TTM |
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| | From:  femfree | Sent: 16/11/2008 9:47 p.m. |
Welcome Twinkle Toes Magoo, thank you for joining us. Supervised visitation is always a subject popular to sites like ours. I appreciate your input on this topic. ie Femfree Manager |
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| | | From: femfree | Sent: 16/11/2008 9:56 p.m. |
I have added the link here: |
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Thanks, FemFree....
I am a very proud member of the Supervised Visitation Network and take what I do very seriously. I'm not actually new to this board, but I've been absent for some time.
I've encountered more than my fair share of Ns in my personal and professional life.
I am happy to answer questions any of the members on this board may have regarding supervised visitation.
Best,
TTM |
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| | | From: nemo10 | Sent: 17/11/2008 11:51 p.m. |
Thank you so much for your response. This information is very helpful. There is only 1 monitor and the dad. The visits are taking place onsite at a day care. My son is only 15 months onld and the dad was ordered to have supervised visits once a week (Sundays) for 2 hours. So far he has only had 3 visits and the 1st lasted a total of 40 minutes, the 2nd lasted 2 hours, and then the 3rd lasted 40 minutes. Every time I drop off and pick up my son he is hysterical and crying. The 2nd visit where it lasted 2 hours I was very skeptical about what happen because my son had a really close bond with the monitor ( a lady) and then his eyes were all red a swollen. I also notified the monitor that my son was sick and they ended up keeping him outside the whole time, therefore, the next 3 days my son was very sick. My son is also being traumitized by these visits. He is now acting out (crying/clingy) at day care when I drop him and he is also crying alot when anybody enters and leaves the day care room. I have received 2 notices fro the directors of the day care as well as had a conference with them in regards to my sons behvior changes. We are all very concerned about my son and his well being. I don't know what to do. Now they are trying to tell me that I have to pay for half the supervised visits. The visitation place said that I have to pay for the fathers traveling expenses as well. That seems absolutely ridiculous. Once again thank you for your help and I hope to get this all resolved! |
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| | | From: nemo10 | Sent: 18/11/2008 3:43 p.m. |
Is it true that they can make the custodial parent pay for half of the visits as well as half of the travel expenses if the other parent lives out of area. For example: Flight cost and hotel expenses? This is what they are trying to tell me and I did not agree to this at all. I did not even want to pay for half the supervised visits and my attorney put it in the agreement. |
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| | (1 recommendation so far) | Message 13 of 22 in Discussion |
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Nemo10,
It looks like you are a relatively new member to this board. I tried to go back and find more of your posts so that I could have a clearer picture of your situation. I've been a member on and off for about 5 years, but I haven't logged on for months.
You state that you've had a retraining order against your son's father for 2 years. You also state that your son is only 15 months old. Did the abuse begin during your pregnancy (which is very common)?
Were you and your son's father ever married? Did you live together?
Since your son was born has his father ever had unsupervised visits?
You say that the visits are being supervised by a custody monitor "on-site" at a daycare . I have never heard of a visitation like that. Professional monitors generally observe visits at "visitation centers" or completely off-site in public places. At a visitation center there may be other parents there also having monitored visits with their children, but monitoring a visit at a daycare facility without the written consent of ALL of the other parents who's children who attend that same daycare would have the potential be a HUGE liability for the owner of the childcare facility.
I don't want to discount what you say about your son's separation anxiety. It's not pleasant thing to experience (for you or your child). But, because your son is only 15 months old, it would be considered quite normal and age appropriate for him to be upset when he's away from his you (his primary caregiver).
According to the information you provided, your son has had a total of 3 hours and 20 minutes of monitored visits with his father. You say that your son has a close bond with the female monitor? If dad has had little involvement up until now, and your son has had mainly women caring for him (you and his daycare) it's to be expected that he looks to the female monitor for comfort. Does dad have any other children or much experience with young children? If not, if your son has had limited contact with his dad and his dad is a bit awkward at the visits, your son probably picks up on that.
You indicate that your son attends regular daycare separate from the monitored visits. I assume at a different facility? You say they've also given you notices (in writing I hope) that your son's behavior has changed significantly since the supervised visits with his dad began? How long has your son attended regular daycare and for how many hours per day/per week?
As for being ordered to pay for half of the visits......? It's quite rare in domestic violence cases for a judge to order the custodial parent to pay for any or half of the fees for supervised visits. Are you extremely wealthy? How much per hour does the monitor charge? Can you afford it? You may be dying inside every time you drop your son off for a visit, but the more supportive you appear to the courts the better it looks for you. Follow the court order no matter how unfair it may seem.
Sharing a child with a Narcissist is crazy-making, but be very careful about making accusations unless you can prove them 100%....and even then be careful. If you can afford a full CCE (child custody evaluation) with a psychologist that specializes in family law cases that is your best bet to getting your concerns heard by the court. Having a good attorney is important. A family law specialist and not just a family law attorney is your best bet. Very few attorneys (or Judges) have a real understanding of personality disorders. Again, another reason for a custody evaluation. You can't diagnose your ex, but a licensed psychologist certainly can and the court is far more likely to listen to a mental health professional than an emotional mom...no matter how right you may be.
I speak from experience......not just as a custody monitor, but as a parent that has gone through a grueling custody battle with a Narcissist myself. And, there's no end in sight. My son and I have been abused by the N and the courts, but nearly 6 years into our nightmare things have started to turn around and karma is catching up. I had to learn to detach from the drama as much as possible and focus on being the best mom possible and the best me possible and it's paying off. I wouldn't wish what we've been through on anyone, but I a helluva lot stronger and wiser in spite of/or because of it.
Sorry for all the questions above. I'm very passionate about what I do and I really want to offer you as much sound advice as possible. This board has done that for me many times over the past several years. I was a mess when I came here the first time and I did not always appreciate the advice I was given. We all come here for support, but often times what we really need is tough love.
Warmest regards,
TTM
P.S. Please make sure you find out what specific training/ qualifications and experience the monitor in our case has.
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| | | From: femfree | Sent: 20/11/2008 8:33 p.m. |
Hi Nemo. You will need legal advice on this. It seems the normal channels are different where you live. Pay attention to this part. Are they 'demanding' that you pay for 1/2 supervised costs and dad's travel or, are they actually asking you. There's a huge difference. One is a statement we never respond to and the other is a question, which, needs to go from dad to dad's lawyer to your lawer to you. Then, you say no to the actual question. If they are 'demanding' then say nothing. It's a statement meant to provoke so use the power of your silence. So sweetie, buck up and when they start up with this garbage, simply and very calmly say "You need to discuss this with your lawyer N." say nothing more and don't repeat it again. Game over, the ball is now in dad's park. He can scream bloody hell at you and, being an N, he will likely cause a lot of noise, but your job is to remain detached and care for your child and not get into any discussions with the N about this. N is trying to push your buttons. He senses this will cause you distress. Apparently it is. Punt it right back in N dad's court with the statement above. Tell the person who is supervising the visitation that you are expecting a report - isn't that part of their duties? And, to have it sent to your lawyer. Copy to the supervised visitation office arranging this. Copy to you. Document everything. And, if dad gets ugly, simply cease the conversation. Say to dad "You need to email me about this." and refuse to discuss anything further. If dad doesn't have email, then get a third party involved, preferably a male that dad won't want to appear nasty infront of to act as a go between to handle the communications. This person is called a parenting co-ordinator and often the courts will appoint one - your lawyer will know more about this. You can also use a relative, friend (ie father/brother) to help you. Lots of mothers are not at all emotionally equipped to deal with the abusive barrage of the N and they need to detach and when court ordered as in visitation, a third party is appointed to protect the mother. But you will still need to learn the ropes - see our pages - check out our new sites - they're updated there on abuve management and bullyproofing yourself. Practice makes perfect when learning to say these things. In short - if N makes a statement don't respond. If he asks you a question tell him to email you and then I"ll need to think about that N, call me (email me) next Tuesday and I'll give you my decision." Let him howl. In fact, record his howling. Essential Reading: Try these steps. They work Abuse Recovery Tips and Traps divorce Topics Survival Skills Hope this helps. I know it is distressing to watch your child so upset. At this point, as the child gets older, it may be necessary to get a child therapist involved - these people and any needed guardians ad litem, provide testimony to the courts as to visitation. Take Care, be strong. If it's any consolation. Often their nastiness is a sign that they're struggling and, typical of the personality disordered, will use you as their 'figurative' punching bag. femfree |
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| | | From: femfree | Sent: 20/11/2008 8:35 p.m. |
If the costs are in the agreement and you signed for it then you're on the hook and you need to pay. Unless, you can get the agreement redone. |
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| | | From: nemo10 | Sent: 21/11/2008 3:58 p.m. |
I do not have any contact with the N because I have a domestic violence restraining order for 2 years. So the N, which has no lawyer, is making all of his comments and actions to the supervised visit place and my lawyers. My lawyers are just sitting there taking it and meeting all his wishes and the supervised visit place, the director lady, had the nerve to bad mouth me and say that I was giving off the vibe that I don't want the relationship to happen between my son and the N. I swear I am the one doing everything getting evrything in on time and abiding by all the rules and wishes of everyone and I am the one getting crapped on. I don't get it! |
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| | | From: femfree | Sent: 22/11/2008 4:27 a.m. |
This is all so unprofessional. I'm so sorry for you. You need much better legal help here. |
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I am sorry you are going through all this hullabaloo also. Here's a link to a "time-tracker" AND the home page of S.P.A.R.C They have some very good advice (IMO) and can help you document and track these visits and the results of same. I am not a lawyer and this wouldn't supercede your attorney's advice; but I'm finding that it helps us in our ongoing custody tug-o-war. Perhaps it can help you sort things out, so you can go to your attorney/s with FACTS.... ~BMOGS~ |
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| | | From: nemo10 | Sent: 26/11/2008 3:38 p.m. |
Thank you for your wonderful response. I am just lost and confused with everything that is going on. Then last night I recieved an email from my attorney stating that the agency I am doing supervised visits with her in Northern California, does not have an on site visitation place therefore the Friday visits will be off site. They wanted them to be at a park. I said no because of the weather change and it gets dark by 4:45. They informed my attorney that with off site visits that I will meet the monitor, the monitor will then take my car seat, she will then drive my son to the off site visit place, and then bring my son back to me. I think this is absolutely absurb and I will not have someone driving my son around in their vehicle. Especially when it stated in their agency policy's that they are not responisble for any liablility or injury to your child. Also in their policy it does not state anything about transportation to off site visits. Do you have any suggestions> |
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| | | From: femfree | Sent: 26/11/2008 8:24 p.m. |
I'm wondering what the dad has in mind for his visitations with the child. also, he should have a car seat available per the laws. You have yours and he needs to get one too. The N may well damage your seat I'd say no to that - let him go shopping. What about a Mcdonald's with a play area in it? Or, is there a shopping center that has a play area? |
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Hi there, Nemo10.......
I feel for you. I've read your posts several times now because I really want to be "clear" about the supervised visits.
You stated previously that the monitor was a "professional" and that the visits were being done "on-site" at a daycare. I passed that info around to my colleagues and none of them have ever heard of a TRAINED monitor observing visits at a daycare.
Now you are saying that the monitor is no longer doing visits on-site at all?
You sound confused and frustrated. I would be too. Since you are in California I recommend that you review this:
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/rules/index.cfm?title=standards&linkid=standard5_20
Now, I will say, the scenario that you describe, where the monitor picks up the child from you, takes child to visit with other parent and returns the child to you again is VERY common for off-site visitations in which there is a restraining order in place. I am just returning home from a visitation just like that. However, I am fully insured (my car and my business) and, I am Trustline certified. Additionally, I provide my own child safety seat (that is age appropriate) so that neither parent needs to provide a car seat for a visit.
You have the right to do a background check on a monitor and the monitor should give you the exact location of the visit. But, due to the restraining order the monitor should never give the monitored parent your physical address nor should the monitor ever come to your home to pick up or drop off your child.
I always provide parents with proof of insurance (car). I've been driving for 20 years and I've never had an accident or a speeding ticket for that matter. But, I can't count on the rest of the people on the road to be as good a driver as I am. A professional monitor would never transport a child without insurance.
I specialize in working with difficult and high-profile cases. I get these cases because I have a very good reputation with the courts, lawyers, psychologists, but mostly importantly PARENTS.
If you are paying this monitor your hard-earned money you should expect a certain level of respect and amount of information.
Again....follow the court order. Does the court order specify the monitor and location of the visits. Does the court order state that the monitor does pick-up/drop off of child? If it hasn't been officially ordered by your Judge you don't have to agree to do it.
Best,
Twinkle Toes Magoo |
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