|
|
Reply
| | From: ·TammyJo· (Original Message) | Sent: 8/03/2004 2:44 a.m. |
Congratulations to Char, one of our long standing members of the NPD forum. I'm delighted that she will be working with Dr. Vaknin this week and I get the chance to work with her as well! Congrats Char! Dr. Vaknin: Here is Char's first post to you for this week!: Dear S.V., I met N about a year and a half after my divorce.That was four years ago. He was the biggest mystery to me until a psychologist friend of mine who had met him said, " He might be a narcissist". I still didn't look it up what that meant until a year after that. Then after we got married last year, I finally looked it up and found this site. All of the pieces fell into place. I could never figure out if he had a split personality or what...I just knew something was very abnormal about him. When I told him I thought he was an N, he got mad and told me to fix myself and quit looking for something to be wrong with him. I asked him if he knew what it was and he said yes but that he had gone to get himself checked out several years ago and was told nothing is wrong with him. When I asked him when, why, who did he get 'checked out' with...he got all vague and angry again. It also dawned on me that years before he had been reading a book called, "Drama of the Gifted Child." When I found out it is a book about how children become narcissistic, I was shocked to realize he had been reading it years ago. I asked him about the book...why was he reading it? He said someone had told him it was a good book. I asked him who told him that? He got vague and said he didn't remember and why was it important anyway? Then later, he claims to not know what NPD is. I know he has had some trouble with the law in the past (selling drugs...of course blamed it on his girlfriend) and had to spend a year in prison. Could a psych evaluation have been a part of his release probation? Could he really have been told he has NPD years ago and be lying about it? Is that kind of eval a normal part of being in prison? Would any of this information be available if it was part of some sort of law requirement that he had to undergo? I just find it hard to believe he ever: 1. Willingly went to a psych eval...'just to check himself out". Totally out of character and he would never spend his money on that. 2. Would have ever have had a psych evaluation and end up with a "there's nothing wrong with you." HA! 3. Would have been reading a book about how children get NPD and not have a personal reason for reading that. It is not the kind of book someone just recommends to read because it is 'a good book'. So, any insight you have about this is greatly appreciated. Char |
|
First
Previous
2-13 of 13
Next
Last
|
|
Reply
| | From: samvak | Sent: 8/03/2004 11:15 a.m. |
Dear Char, Why is it so important to you? This is the question you should contemplate. In all probability, he was evaluated, probably involuntarily, and the book was recommended to him, and he read it. But all this is meaningless. Narcissists have little introspection, never admit to faults, and perceive any suggestion of n incipient pathology as a threat. Many of them are actually PROUD of their illness. They feel that it makes them unique. It takes a major life crisis to force the narcissist to face up to his False Self: a painful breakdown of a close (symbiotic) relationship, a failure (in business, in a career, in the pursuit of a goal), the death of a parent, imprisonment, or a disease. Under normal circumstances, the narcissist denies that he is one (denial defence mechanism) and reacts with rage to any hint at being so diagnosed. The narcissist employs a host of intricate and interwoven defence mechanisms: rationalisation, intellectualisation, projection, projective identification, splitting, suppression and denial (to name but a few) �?to sweep his narcissism under the psychological carpet. When at risk of getting in touch with the reality of being mentally disturbed (and, as a result, with his emotions) �?the narcissist displays the whole spectrum of emotional reactions usually associated with bereavement. At first he denies the facts, ignores them and distorts them to fit an alternative, coherent, non-narcissistic, interpretation. Then, he becomes enraged. Wrathful, he attacks the people and social institutions that are the constant reminders of his true state. Than he sinks into depression and sadness. This phase is, really, a transformation of the aggression that he harbours into self-destructive impulses. Horrified by the potential consequences of being aggressive towards the very sources of his Narcissistic Supply �?the narcissist resorts to self-attack, or self-annihilation. Yet, if the evidence is hard and still coming, the narcissist accepts himself as such and tries to make the best of it (in other words, to use his very narcissism to obtain Narcissistic Supply). The narcissist is a survivor and (while rigid in most parts of his personality) �?very inventive and flexible when it comes to securing Narcissistic Supply. The narcissist could, for instance, channel this force (of narcissism) positively �?or defiantly caricature the main aspects of narcissism so as to attract attention (albeit negative). But in most cases, the reflexes of avoidance prevail. The narcissist feels disenchanted with the person or persons who presented him with proof of his narcissism. He disconnects �?swiftly and cruelly �?and parts ways with them, often without as much as an explanation (same as he does when he envies someone). He then proceeds to develop paranoid theories to explain why people, events, institutions and circumstances tend to confront him with his narcissism and he, bitterly and cynically, opposes or avoids them. As anti-narcissistic agents they constitute a threat to the very coherence and continuity of his personality and this probably serves to explain the ferocity, malice, obduracy, consistency and exaggeration which characterise his reactions. Faced with the potential collapse or dysfunctioning of his False Self �?the narcissist also faces the terrible consequences of being left alone and defenceless with his sadistic, maligned, self-destructive Superego. Are narcissists capable of introspection? Can they distinguish their False Self from who they really are? Can this help them in the therapeutic process? A passage by Nathan Salant-Schwartz from "Narcissism and Character Transformation" [pp. 90-91. Inner City Books, 1985]: "Psychologically, the shadow or reflection carries the image of the self �?not the Ego. It is interesting and even psychotherapeutically useful to have persons suffering from NPD study their face in a mirror. Often they will see someone of great power and effectiveness, precisely the qualities they feel a lack of. For even though they may overwhelm others with their energy and personal qualities, they themselves feel ineffective. Narcissus must possess his idealised image; he cannot allow its otherness for that would be too threatening to his basic design, to be mirrored himself. Hence, the sudden switch: 'Shall I be wooed or woo?'. Narcissus' libido quickly changes from an idealisation into a mirror form, showing how his unredeemed inflation, in psychoanalytic terms, his grandiose-exhibitionistic self, gains control." Jungian parlance aside, the author seems to be describing �?rather poetically �?the basic relationship between the True Self and the False Self. No theoretician has ignored this dichotomy, most basic to malignant narcissism. The True Self is indeed synonymous with the [Freudian] Ego. It is shrivelled, dilapidated, stifled and marginalised by the False Self. The distinction that the authors would have liked the narcissist to draw between his Ego and his self is all but impossible. The narcissist relegates his Ego functions to the outside world. His False Self is an invention and the reflection of an invention. The narcissist has no personality structures in place to make this distinction (between self and Ego). Really, narcissists do not exist. They are a loose coalition between a sadistic, idealised Superego and a grandiose and manipulative False Ego based on mutual terror. Their interactions are mechanical. They are Narcissistic Supply seeking robots. No robot is capable of introspection �?not even with the help of a mirror. Narcissists often think of themselves as machines (the "automata metaphor"). They might say things like "I have an amazing brain" or "I am not functioning today, my efficiency is low." They measure things, constantly compare performance. They are acutely aware of time and its use. There is a meter in the narcissist's head, it ticks and tocks, a metronome of self-reproach and grandiose assertions. The narcissist often talks to himself in third person singular. He feels that it lends objectivity to what he thinks, as though it is emanating from an external source. That low is the self-esteem of the narcissist that, to be trusted, he has to disguise himself, to hide himself from himself. It is the pernicious and all-pervasive art of un-being. The narcissist likes to think about himself in terms of automata. There is something so aesthetically compelling in their precision, in their impartiality, in their harmonious embodiment of the abstract. Machines are so powerful and so emotionless, not prone to be hurting weaklings. The narcissist carries with him his metal constitution, his robot countenance, his superhuman knowledge, his inner timekeeper, his theory of morality and my very own divinity �?himself. Sometimes the narcissist does gain awareness and knowledge of his predicament - typically in the wake of a life crisis (divorce, bankruptcy, incarceration, near death experience, death in the family). But, in the absence of an emotional correlate, of feelings, such merely cognitive awakening is useless. It does not yield insight. The dry facts do not bring about a transformation, let alone healing. The introspection of the narcissist is emotionless, akin to the listing of an inventory of his "good" and "bad" sides and without any commitment to change. It does not enhance his ability to empathize, nor does it inhibit his propensity to exploit others and discard them when their usefulness is over. It does not tamper his overpowering and raging sense of entitlement, nor does it deflate his grandiose fantasies. The narcissist's introspection is a futile and arid exercise at bookkeeping, a soulless bureaucracy of the psyche and, in its own way, even more chilling that the alternative: a narcissist blissfully unaware of his own disorder. Regarding therapy: The narcissist's paranoidal delusions extend to the therapeutic sessions. One of the most important presenting symptoms of a narcissist is his (or her) insistence that he (or she) is equal to the psychotherapist in knowledge, in experience, in social status. The narcissist in the therapeutic session spices his speech with psychiatric lingo and professional terms. He distances himself from his painful emotions by generalising them, analysing them to small verbal pieces, slicing life and hurt and neatly tacking the results under what he thinks are "professional insights". In effect, he is telling the psychotherapist: there is nothing much that you can teach me, I am as intelligent as you, you are not superior to me, actually, we should both collaborate as equals in this unfortunate state of things in which we, inadvertently, find ourselves involved. Finally, the partner gathers enough courage to confront the narcissist with the facts about the narcissist's self (as seen from the partner's vantage point). The threshold of tolerance is crossed, the measure of suffering exceeded. The partner does not expect to induce changes in the narcissist (though she is most likely to insist otherwise). The partner's motivation is much baser: to exact revenge for a period of mental slavery, subservience, subjugation, subordination, exploitation, humiliation and objectification. The aim is to anger the narcissist, and, thus, to make him vulnerable, inferior for a minute. It is a mini-rebellion (which does not last long), sometimes possessed of sadistic elements. Living with a narcissist is a harrowing experience. It can tilt one's mind toward abnormal reactions (really normal reactions to an abnormal situation). The capriciousness, volatility, arbitrariness and vicissitudinal character of the narcissist's behaviour can facilitate the formation of paranoid reactions. The less predictable the world, the more ominous and precarious it is and the more paranoid the pattern of reactions to it. Sometimes �?through the mechanism of narcissistic mirroring �?the partner adopts a way of reacting to a prolonged period of emotional deprivation and stress by emulating the narcissist himself. The latter is then likely to reproach the partner by saying: "You became I and I became you!!! I do not know you anymore!" The narcissist has a way of getting under his partners' skin. They cannot escape him because he is part of their lives and part of their selves, as internalised as any parent is. Even after a long sought separation, the partners still care for the narcissist greatly �?enough to be mulling over the expired relationship endlessly. It is this that the partner should clarify to herself: she may be able to exit the narcissist's life �?but will he ever exit hers? A narcissist's partner wrote to me these heartbreaking words: "I have made him sound like a monster, and in many ways he really is. At the same time, I have always seen a vulnerability in him, the small terrified hungry child (almost split-off from the rest of him) and I suppose this is why I tried so hard with him. I knew, almost intuitively, that while his (False) Ego was constantly swelling, his heart (True Ego) was starving�?/SPAN> I tried as hard as I could, in as many ways as I could, to feed the real person inside (and I believed there was a fragment of that person still alive, represented by the child). In a way, I think the violence of his reactions near the end was due to my coming so close, in arousing those ordinary needs. When he realised he has become dependent on me, and that I knew it, I think he just couldn't take it. He could not finally take the chance of trusting me. It was an orgy of destruction. I keep thinking I could have handled it better, could and should have done things differently. Maybe it wouldn't have made any difference, but I will say that there was a real person in there somewhere, and a quite delightful one. But as you pointed out, the narcissist would always prefer his invented self to the true one. I could not make him see that his real self was far more interesting and enchanting than his grotesque inflated grandiose superman construct. I think it is a tragic loss of a truly interesting and talented human being." Take care. Sam |
|
Reply
| 0 recommendations | Message 3 of 13 in Discussion |
| | Sent: 8/03/2004 11:59 a.m. |
This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager. |
|
Reply
| 0 recommendations | Message 4 of 13 in Discussion |
| | Sent: 8/03/2004 1:31 p.m. |
This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager. |
|
Reply
| (1 recommendation so far) | Message 5 of 13 in Discussion |
|
Dear S.V. Thank you for your message. I appreciated not being sent to endless links as I have read them all. It's funny that the first thing you wrote was questioning why it was important to me. I am not sure if that was meant as an insightful tease or not but if you notice....I had already stated that N has already asked me the exact same thing. ;-) As a matter of fact...when I was preparing to write I realized I have read most everything about NPD and I was not sure that anything I asked would garner anything new. I wanted to simply state...and ask....what now? Now that I know he is an N...what do I do with this knowledge? If he cannot use it for insight into himself...can I use this knowledge as insight into myself? That has come to be what I now face...myself looking into the mirror. I have read what you say about partners of N's. I have actually learned what codependence is and that where he is concerned...I certainly have those traits. I told the same psych friend who suggested that he is an N that I didn't think I had been codependent with anyone in the past....he just laughed and said "Codependency: either you have it...or you don't." He seems to think it is as much a factor of a personality as NPD is. ...and just as binding. Do you agree with this? Or do you think it is possible for a normal person to become codependent once in an intimate relationship with an N? I keep looking for signs from N that he is does not really have NPD. He just keeps reaffirming that he does in his every action. I have tried to have a long distance relationship with him because we do have a great time together and at a distance I am kept from his traits on a daily basis. This works somewhat. Only somewhat, because his NPD does rear its ugly head...even at a distance. What is interesting is what has happened to me. I feel split inside. Just as I came to wonder if I was involved with Jeckle and Hyde....I became just as dual. I had to in order to be with him at all. There is my side that enjoys him and there is my side that is so dissapointed with the values he has that are so very different than mine....the ones he led me to believe he shares...the values he thinks he has...but, he truly does not. It eeks out in my dreams. I can feel my dissapointment in myself for not just walking away. I feel horror inside for what is happening. It is like a sci fi horror where something has invaded a normal person and makes them do things they would not normally do. All the normal person's brain can do is watch in horror as they commit these acts. Part of me is terrified and frozen and part of me is commanding and ordering me to run like hell. My fight or flight reflex has abandoned me. I have suppressed my true rage at him so many times that now when I feel rage...an auto response comes from inside me and makes me stop in my tracks. I have looked to people who know him well to have some sympathy and understanding....some validation of the horror he reeps upon us all. I get none because I am still there. Frozen and unable to move away. That doesn't sound like codependence. What is it? As far as your statement that an N gets under ones skin and do they ever really exit ...I say that an N will exit as much as any loved one has...with memory intact indeed. Each person I meet in life has a part in who I am. The N is not special in this way at all. I cried when I read what the other partner had written about her N relationship. I feel the same way. It is very sad and I have told him so. I get angry at life for not letting him be normal. At least now, I know what I am dealing with in him. The real question now is...what am I dealing with in me? Was it a factor inside me before I met N ...or because of being in a relationship with N? Thanks for using your NPD to help us understand instead of in destructive ways. Char |
|
Reply
| | From: samvak | Sent: 9/03/2004 1:24 p.m. |
Dear Char, Thank you for your kind words. There are 1000 pages on my Webn site. Google has 170,000 links to narcissism Web sites. There is always something new to learn and no one can safelty say that she has "read them all". Even I find new material daily. Char: what now? Now that I know he is an N...what do I do with this knowledge? can I use this knowledge as insight into myself? Sam: You can use this knowledge to disengage - and you can use this knowledge to reflect on your relationship(s). You are bound to learn about yourself. We all do so, minute by minute. Char: I told the same psych friend who suggested that he is an N that I didn't think I had been codependent with anyone in the past....he just laughed and said "Codependency: either you have it...or you don't." He seems to think it is as much a factor of a personality as NPD is. ...and just as binding. Do you agree with this? Or do you think it is possible for a normal person to become codependent once in an intimate relationship with an N? Sam: I am afraid he is right. Codependency is a mental health problem - and either you have it or you don't. BUT Sometimes (rarely) it is triggered only by SPECIFIC partners. Hence the concept of covert (or Inverted) Narcissist: Co-dependents People who depend on other people for their emotional gratification and the performance of Ego or daily functions. They are needy, demanding, submissive. They fear abandonment, cling and display immature behaviours in their effort to maintain the "relationship" with their companion or mate upon whom they depend. No matter what abuse is inflicted upon them �?they remain in the relationship. See also the definition of the Dependent Personality Disorder in the DSM-IV-TR. Inverted Narcissist Previously called "covert narcissist", this is a co-dependent who depends exclusively on narcissists (narcissist-co-dependent). If you live with a narcissist, have a relationship with one, are married to one, work with a narcissist, etc. �?it does NOT mean that you are an inverted narcissist. To "qualify" as an inverted narcissist �?you must CRAVE to be in a relationship with a narcissist, regardless of any abuse inflicted on you by him/her. You must ACTIVELY seek relationships with narcissists �?and ONLY with narcissists �?no matter what your (bitter and traumatic) past experience has been. You must feel EMPTY and UNHAPPY in relationships with ANY OTHER kind of person. Only THEN �?AND if you satisfy the other diagnostic criteria of a Dependent Personality Disorder �?can you be safely labelled an "inverted narcissist". Char: That doesn't sound like codependence. What is it? Sam: On the very contrary. This is one of the most accurate, poetical, and eloquent descriptions of codependence I ever read. It is also a good encapsulation of the Stockholm Syndrome (traumatic bonding) - see this: Char: As far as your statement that an N gets under ones skin and do they ever really exit ...I say that an N will exit as much as any loved one has...with memory intact indeed. Each person I meet in life has a part in who I am. The N is not special in this way at all. Sam: (smiling) Then why are we corresponding in this weekly case? Ex-partners of narcissists suffer the outcomes of a traumatic relationship. Many of them go on to develop Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). This is NOT typical of a relationship with a non-narcissistic person. See these: Char: Was it a factor inside me before I met N ...or because of being in a relationship with N? Sam: In all probability, the former. It was triggered by the latter. Take care and go on reading. Sam |
|
Reply
| |
"They employ a myriad of defence mechanisms: projective identification, splitting, projection, intellectualisation, rationalisation." When an N is lying or doing any of the above....do they know what they are doing? Does he believe the wall is green because he says it is? I mean, N will lie to me...when I don't believe him and tell him so...he is angry at me. Why is he angry? Because I won't believe his lies? Doesn't he see how ridiculous that is? He effectively shifts the reason for the anger from what he did (lie) to my disbelief of it. He will often say things about other people that totally describes himself. Like, " Some people are just angry and they provoke others in order to justify their anger." or, "Some people have their own rules. They won't tell you what they are but if you break them they will let you know they are angry at you for it." Next time I will ask him who these "people" that say these things are and where did he hear them say it!! Now that I have read what you say about NPD I see his projections. Would he recognize himself in these statements if I pointed it out to him? I ask this because I confronted him on several of his lies and outlandish behaviors yesterday. I don't even want to listen to his voice mail that he left me today. I know he will be raging and blame me. Surely he must know that what he says is a lie..so why does he manage to act like he did nothing wrong and it is my fault?? Does he believe his own lies? This is probably the most perplexing thing to me. That he can say and do these things and not see how ridiculous it is or that he is just like what he attributes to others. How can anyone be so blind? (...and am I asking the same thing in different ways? ;-) haha!) I re-read the Stockholm syndrome and ptsd information. It made my eyes mist because you pointed out the things I wrote and experienced as being these. It is hard to see myself in such extremes, but when you used my own words to help me see....I do see. It is painful. It is unfortunately true. As hard as it is to see...it is good to understand. I have been to so many therapists and asked why I can't leave him...what is wrong...and none of them zero'd in on these. One even told me I did not have ptsd when I said I thought I did. She said I couldn't have it because my life was not in danger. I quit seeing any of them. I didn't think anyone was getting it or understanding it at all. If they understood the extremes of what I am dealing with...then maybe they could have helped me. But, none of them did. So, I am dealing with this alone. I talk to my sisters and one friend about it...and on this site. My sister has a sense of humor about it and for Christmas gave me a Narcissis flower! Jokester she is. So, this last part is not a question but a thank you. Thank you for bringing some clarity to how this has effected me. Thank you all for finally being a glimpse of understanding. After all, the purpose of this site is to deal with ourselves. I am a teacher and when making lessons I always find the "essential question" and then see if my lesson is accomplishing that. So, my essential question here is: "What is the best way to move forward from here and have a healthy life and relationships after this?" Everything I do has to be making that happen. Just like a lesson plan. Char |
|
Reply
| | From: samvak | Sent: 10/03/2004 11:23 a.m. |
Dear Char, Thank you for your kind words. You posed two questions and I will deal with the first one today - the narcissist's pathological and incessant lying. Confabulations are an important part of life. They serve to heal emotional wounds or to prevent ones from being inflicted in the first place. They prop-up the confabulator's self-esteem, regulate his (or her) sense of self-worth, and buttress his (or her) self-image. They serve as organizing principles in social interactions. Father's wartime heroism, mother's youthful good looks, one's oft-recounted exploits, erstwhile alleged brilliance, and past purported sexual irresistibility - are typical examples of white, fuzzy, heart-warming lies wrapped around a shriveled kernel of truth. But the distinction between reality and fantasy is rarely completely lost. Deep inside, the healthy confabulator knows where facts end and wishful thinking takes over. Father acknowledges he was no war hero, though he did his share of fighting. Mother understands she was no ravishing beauty, though she may have been attractive. The confabulator realizes that his recounted exploits are overblown, his brilliance exaggerated, and his sexual irresistibility a myth. Such distinctions never rise to the surface because everyone - the confabulator and his audience alike - have a common interest to maintain the confabulation. To challenge the integrity of the confabulator or the veracity of his confabulations is to threaten the very fabric of family and society. Human intercourse is built around such entertaining deviations from the truth. This is where the narcissist differs from others (from "normal" people). His very self is a piece of fiction concocted to fend off hurt and to nurture the narcissist's grandiosity. He fails in his "reality test" - the ability to distinguish the actual from the imagined. The narcissist fervently believes in his own infallibility, brilliance, omnipotence, heroism, and perfection. He doesn't dare confront the truth and admit it even to himself. Moreover, he imposes his personal mythology on his nearest and dearest. Spouse, children, colleagues, friends, neighbors - sometimes even perfect strangers - must abide by the narcissist's narrative or face his wrath. The narcissist countenances no disagreement, alternative points of view, or criticism. To him, confabulation IS reality. The coherence of the narcissist's dysfunctional and precariously-balanced personality depends on the plausibility of his stories and on their acceptance by his sources of narcissistic supply. The narcissist invests an inordinate time in substantiating his tales, collecting "evidence", defending his version of events, and in re-interpreting reality to fit his scenario. As a result, most narcissists are self-delusional, obstinate, opinionated, and argumentative. The narcissist's lies are not goal-orientated. This is what makes his constant dishonesty both disconcerting and incomprehensible. The narcissist lies at the drop of a hat, needlessly, and almost ceaselessly. He lies in order to avoid the Grandiosity Gap - when the abyss between fact and (narcissistic) fiction becomes too gaping to ignore. The narcissist lies in order to preserve appearances, uphold fantasies, support the tall (and impossible) tales of his False Self and extract narcissistic supply from unsuspecting sources, who are not yet on to him. To the narcissist, confabulation is not merely a way of life - but life itself. We are all conditioned to let other indulge in pet delusions and get away with white, not too egregious, lies. The narcissist makes use of our socialization. We dare not confront or expose him, despite the outlandishness of his claims, the improbability of his stories, the implausibility of his alleged accomplishments and conquests. We simply turn the other cheek, or meekly avert our eyes, often embarrassed. Moreover, the narcissist makes clear, from the very beginning, that it is his way or the highway. His aggression - even violent streak - are close to the surface. He may be charming in a first encounter - but even then there are telltale signs of pent-up abuse. His interlocutors sense this impending threat and avoid conflict by acquiescing with the narcissist's fairy tales. Thus he imposes his private universe and virtual reality on his milieu - sometimes with disastrous consequences. Pathological narcissism is a defense mechanism intended to isolate the narcissist from his environment and to shield him from hurt and injury, both real and imagined. Hence the False Self - an all-pervasive psychological construct which gradually displaces the narcissist's True Self. It is a work of fiction intended to elicit praise and deflect criticism. The unintended consequence of this fictitious existence is a diminishing ability to grasp reality correctly and to cope with it effectively. Narcissistic supply replaces genuine, veritable, and tested feedback. Analysis, disagreement, and uncomfortable facts are screened out. Layers of bias and prejudice distort the narcissist's experience. Yet, deep inside, the narcissist is aware that his life is an artifact, a confabulated sham, a vulnerable cocoon. The world inexorably and repeatedly intrudes upon these ramshackle battlements, reminding the narcissist of the fantastic and feeble nature of his grandiosity. This is the much-dreaded "Grandiosity Gap". To avoid the agonizing realization of his failed, defeat-strewn, biography, the narcissist resorts to reality-substitutes. The dynamics are simple: as the narcissist grows older, his sources of supply become scarcer, and his grandiosity gap yawns wider. Mortified by the prospect of facing his actuality, the narcissist withdraws ever deeper into a dreamland of concocted accomplishments, feigned omnipotence and omniscience, and brattish entitlement. The narcissist's reality substitutes fulfill two functions. They help him "rationally" ignore painful realities with impunity - and they proffer an alternative universe in which he reigns supreme and emerges triumphant. The most common form of denial involves persecutory delusions. I described these elsewhere: "(The narcissist) perceives slights and insults where none were intended. He becomes subject to ideas of reference (people are gossiping about him, mocking him, prying into his affairs, cracking his e-mail, etc.). He is convinced that he is the centre of malign and mal-intentioned attention. People are conspiring to humiliate him, punish him, abscond with his property, delude him, impoverish him, confine him physically or intellectually, censor him, impose on his time, force him to action (or to inaction), frighten him, coerce him, surround and besiege him, change his mind, part with his values, even murder him, and so on." The narcissist's paranoid narrative serves as an organizing principle. It structures his here and now and gives meaning to his life. It aggrandizes him as worthy of being persecuted. The mere battle with his demons is an achievement not to be sniggered at. By overcoming his "enemies", the narcissist emerges victorious and powerful. The narcissist's self-inflicted paranoia - projections of threatening internal objects and processes - legitimizes, justifies, and "explains" his abrupt, comprehensive, and rude withdrawal from an ominous and unappreciative world . The narcissist's pronounced misanthropy - fortified by these oppressive thoughts - renders him a schizoid, devoid of all social contact, except the most necessary. But even as the narcissist divorces his environment, he remains aggressive, or even violent. The final phase of narcissism involves verbal, psychological, situational (and, mercifully, more rarely, physical) abuse directed at his "foes" and "inferiors". It is the culmination of a creeping mode of psychosis, the sad and unavoidable outcome of a choice made long ago to forego the real in favor of the surreal. You may also find this of interest: http://samvak.tripod.com/journal23.html Take care. Sam |
|
Reply
| |
Ok...not only is dealing with a lying N frustrating but I just wrote a bunch only to have it dissapear. *sigh* So, N would rather live in his fabricated world of lies than to be in a real relationship with me? His quest for supply is more important to him than I am? I don't even know if I want to hear the answer to that. I think I already know. Ok...this is not healthy for me to keep trying to reason and expect truth from N. It is too sad and frustrating. I can only wish I was important enough to him, but I have been asking for that for 4 years now. All he does is lie to keep me there. I get nothing from it but sand in my empty hand. It's like trying to reason with sand too. Feeling sad tonight...we were supposed to go to the Grand Canyon in 3 weeks to celebrate our belated honeymoon. I even have the plane ticket to go. I guess when I decided to confront him...I knew I was not going. Char |
|
Reply
| | | Sent: 11/03/2004 11:02 a.m. |
This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager. |
|
Reply
| | From: samvak | Sent: 11/03/2004 4:56 p.m. |
So, N would rather live in his fabricated world of lies than to be in a real relationship with me? His quest for supply is more important to him than I am? Sam: IF he is a narcissist - the ONLY thing that matters to him is narcissistic supply. You matter to him only in as far as you supply him, no more and no less. Question: What is Narcissistic Supply? Answer: We all look for positive cues from people around us. These cues reinforce in us certain behaviour patterns. There is nothing special in the fact that the narcissist does the same. However there are two major differences between the narcissistic and the normal personality. The first difference is quantitative. The normal person is likely to welcome a moderate amount of attention �?verbal and non-verbal �?in the form of affirmation, approval, or admiration. Too much attention, though, is perceived as onerous and is avoided. The narcissist, in contrast, is the mental equivalent of an alcoholic. He asks for more and yet more. He directs his whole behaviour, in fact his life, to obtain these pleasurable titbits of attention. He embeds them in a coherent, completely biased, picture of himself. He uses them to regulates his labile sense of self-worth and self-esteem. To elicit constant interest, he projects to others a confabulated, fictitious version of himself, known as the False Self. The False Self is everything the narcissist is not: omniscient, omnipotent, charming, intelligent, rich, or well-connected. The narcissist then proceeds to harvest reactions to this projected image from family members, friends, co-workers, neighbours, business partners and milieu, or from colleagues. If these �?the adulation, admiration, attention, fear, respect, applause, affirmation �?are not forthcoming, the narcissist demands them, or extorts them. Money, compliments, a favourable critique, an appearance in the media, a sexual conquest are all transformed into the same currency in the narcissist's mind. This currency is what I call Narcissistic Supply. There are two immediate and easy Sources of Narcissistic Supply: publicity (celebrity or notoriety, being famous or being infamous) and having a mate or a companion. Publicity can be obtained by exposing oneself, by creating something, or by provoking attention. The narcissist resorts to all three repeatedly (as drug addicts do to secure their daily dose). But the picture is more complicated. There are two categories of Narcissistic Supply and their Sources (NSS): The Primary Narcissistic Supply Source is attention �?in both its public forms (fame, notoriety, infamy, celebrity) and private forms (adoration, adulation, applause, fear, repulsion). It is important to understand that attention of any kind �?positive and negative �?constitutes Primary Narcissistic Supply. Infamy is as useful as fame, notoriety as good as being renowned. To the narcissist his "achievements" can be imaginary, fictitious, or only apparent, as long as others believe in them. Appearances count more than substance, what matters is not the truth but its perception. The Primary Narcissistic Sources of Supply include �?apart from being famous (celebrity, notoriety, fame, infamy) �?mystique (when the narcissist is considered to be mysterious), having sex and deriving from it a sense of masculinity/virility/femininity, a projection of wealth, proximity to power (money/knowledge/contacts) �?in itself mysterious and awe inspiring. The Secondary Sources of Narcissistic Supply include: leading a normal life (a source of great pride to the narcissist), having a secure existence (economic safety, social acceptability, upward mobility), and obtaining companionship. The Secondary NSS include having a mate, conspicuous wealth, creativity and its products, running a business (transformed into a Pathological Narcissistic Space), the sense of an anarchic freedom, belonging to a group of people which make up a Pathological Narcissistic Space, being prestigious, reputable, or successful, owning property and status symbols (show-off). All these sources, primary and secondary alike �?or rather the Narcissistic Supply that they provide �?are incorporated in a Narcissistic Pathological Space. Question: What are the functions of Narcissistic Supply in the narcissistic pathology? Answer: The narcissist internalises a "bad" object (typically, his mother) in his childhood. He develops socially forbidden feelings towards this object: hatred, envy, and aggression. These feelings reinforce the narcissist's self-image as bad and corrupt. Gradually he develops a dysfunctional sense of self-worth. His self-confidence and self-image become unrealistically low and distorted. In an effort to repress the "bad" feelings, the narcissist is also forced to suppress the good emotions intertwined with them. His aggression is channelled to fantasies or to legitimate outlets (dangerous sports, gambling, reckless driving, compulsive shopping). The narcissist views the world as a hostile, unstable, unrewarding, unjust, and unpredictable place. He defends himself by loving a completely controllable object (himself), by projecting to the world an omnipotent and omniscient False Self, and by turning others to functions or to objects so that they pose no emotional danger. This reactive pattern is what we call pathological narcissism. To counter his demons the narcissist needs the world: its admiration, its adulation, its attention, its applause, even its penalties. The lack of a functioning personality on the inside is balanced by importing Ego functions and boundaries from the outside. The Primary Narcissistic Supply reaffirms the narcissist's grandiose fantasies, buttresses his False Self and, thus allows him to regulate his fluctuating sense of self-worth. The Narcissistic Supply contains information which pertains to the "correctness" of the False Self, to its calibration, intensity and proper functioning. The Narcissistic Supply serves to define the boundaries of the False Self, to regulate its contents and to substitute for some of the functions normally reserved to a True, functioning, Self. While it is easy to understand the function of the Primary Supply, the Secondary type is a more complicated affair. The company of women and "doing business" are the two main Sources of Secondary Narcissistic Supply (SNSS). The narcissist mistakenly interprets his narcissistic needs as emotions. To him, the pursuit of a woman-SNSS, for instance, is what others call "love" or "passion". As we said, the narcissist derives his Narcissistic Supply from PNSS and SNSS (Primary and Secondary Narcissistic Supply Sources). But this supply is perishable goods. The narcissist consumes it and has to replenish the supply. As is the case with other drug addictions, to produce the same effect, he is forced to increase the dosage as he goes. While the narcissist uses up his supply, his partner serves as a silent (and admiring) witness to the narcissist's "great moments" and "achievements". The narcissist's female friend "accumulates" the narcissist's "grandeur" and "illustrious past". When Narcissistic Supply is low, she "releases" the accumulated supply (by reminding the narcissist of these moments of glory) and, thus, helps the narcissist to regulate his sense of self-worth. This function �?of Narcissistic Supply accumulation and release �?is performed by all SNSS, male or female, inanimate or institutional. The narcissist's co-workers, bosses, colleagues, neighbours, and friends are all potential SNSS. They all witness the narcissist's past accomplishments and can remind him of them when new supply runs dry. [In depth analyses of the mechanisms of Narcissistic Supply, its accumulation and regulation can be found here and here.] Question: Why does the narcissist devalue his Source of Secondary Narcissistic Supply? Answer: Narcissists are forever in pursuit of Narcissistic Supply. They are not aware of time, are not constrained by any behavioural consistency, "rules" of conduct or moral considerations. Signal to a narcissist that you are a willing source �?and he is bound to extract his supply from you. This is a reflex. He would have reacted absolutely the same way to any other source. If what is needed to obtain supply from you is intimations of intimacy �?he will employ them liberally. Some Sources of Supply are ideal (from the narcissist's point of view): sufficiently intelligent, sufficiently gullible, submissive, reasonably (but not overly) inferior to the narcissist, in possession of a good memory (with which to regulate the flow of Narcissistic Supply), available but not imposing, not explicitly or overtly manipulative, interchangeable (not indispensable), not demanding (a fatalist to a degree), attractive (if the narcissist is somatic). In short: a Galathea-Pygmallion type. But then, often suddenly and inexplicably, it is all over. The narcissist is cold, uninterested and remote. ONE of the reasons is, as Groucho Marx put it, that the narcissist doesn't like to belong to a club which accepts him as a member. The narcissist devalues his Sources of Supply for the very qualities that made them such sources in the first place: their gullibility, their submissiveness, their (intellectual or physical) inferiority. But there are many other reasons. For instance, the narcissist resents his dependence and by devaluing the object of dependence (his spouse, his employer, his colleague, his friend) he gets rid of the dissonance. Yet another issue: The narcissist perceives intimacy and sex as a threat to his uniqueness. Everyone needs sex and intimacy �?it is the great equaliser. The narcissist resents this equality. He rebels. Sex and intimacy are usually also connected to past unresolved conflicts with important Primary Objects (parents or caregivers). They invoke these conflicts, encourage transference and provoke the onset of an approach-avoidance cycle. Additionally, narcissists get tired of their sources. There is no mathematical formula, which governs this. It depends on numerous variables. Usually, the relationship lasts until the narcissist "gets used" to the source and its stimulating effects wear off OR until a better Source of Supply presents itself. Question: Could negative input be Narcissistic Supply (NS)? Answer: Yes. NS includes attention, fame, notoriety, adulation, fear, applause, approval. It is a mixed bag. If the narcissist gets attention �?positive or negative �?it constitutes NS. If he can manipulate people or influence them �?positively or negatively �?it qualifies as NS. Even quarrelling with people constitutes NS. Perhaps not the fighting itself �?but the ability to influence other people, to induce feelings in them, to manipulate them emotionally, to make them do something or refrain from doing it. NS releases libido (increases the sexual drive). Question: Does the narcissist want to be liked? Answer: Would you wish to be liked by your television set? To the narcissist, people are mere tools, Sources of Supply. If he must be liked by them in order to secure this supply �?he strives to make sure they like him. If he can only be feared �?he makes sure they fear him. He does not really care either way as long as he is being attended to. Attention �?whether in the form of fame or infamy �?is what it's all about. His world revolves around his constant mirroring. I am seen therefore I exist, sayeth the narcissist. But the classic narcissist is also looking to get punished. His actions are aimed to elicit social or other opprobrium and sanctions. His life is a Kafkaesque ongoing trial and the sempiternity of the trial is in itself the punishment. A punishment (a reprimand, an imprisonment, an abandonment) serves to vindicate and validate the internal damning voices of his sadistic, ideal and immature Superego (really, his parents or other caregivers). They confirm his worthlessness. They relieve him from the burden of the inner conflict he endures while successful: the conflict between the gnawing sense of guilt and shame and the need to relentlessly secure Narcissistic Supply. Question: How does the narcissist treat his past Sources of Narcissistic Supply? Answer: One should be careful not to romanticise the narcissist. His remorse is always linked to fears of losing his sources. Narcissists have no enemies. They have only Sources of Narcissistic Supply. An enemy means attention means supply. One holds sway over one's enemy. If the narcissist has the power to provoke emotions in you �?you are still a Source of Supply to him, regardless of WHICH emotions are provoked. He seeks out his old Sources of Narcissistic Supply when he has absolutely no other NS Sources at his disposal. Narcissists frantically try to recycle their old and wasted sources in such a situation. But the narcissist would NOT do even this had he not felt that he could still successfully extract a modicum of NS from the old source (even to attack the narcissist is to recognise his existence and to attend to him!!!). If you are an old Source of Narcissistic Supply, first, get over the excitement of seeing him again. It may be flattering, perhaps sexually arousing. Try to overcome these feelings. Then, simply ignore him. Don't bother to respond in any way to his offer to get together. If he talks to you �?keep quiet, don't answer. If he calls you �?listen politely and then say goodbye and hang up. Indifference is what the narcissist cannot stand. It indicates a lack of attention and interest that constitutes the kernel of negative NS. Much more in FAQ 64 and FAQ 25 in "Malignant Self Love �?Narcissism Revisited". Question: How do narcissists react to criticism? Answer: The narcissist is forever trapped in the unresolved conflicts of his childhood (including the famous Oedipus Complex). This compels him to seek resolution by re-enacting these conflicts with significant others. But he is likely to return to the Primary Objects in his life (parents, authority figures, role models, or caregivers) to do either of two: - To "re-charge" the conflict "battery", or
- When unable to enact the conflict with another.
The narcissist relates to his human environment through his unresolved conflicts. It is the energy of the tension thus created that sustains him. He is a person driven by parlously imminent eruptions, by the unsettling prospect of losing his precarious balance. It is a tightrope act. The narcissist must remain alert and on-edge. Only if the conflict is fresh in his mind can he attain such levels of mental arousal. Periodically interacting with the objects of his conflicts, sustains the inner turmoil, keeps the narcissist on his toes, infuses him with the feeling that he is alive. The narcissist perceives every disagreement �?let alone criticism �?as nothing short of a THREAT. He reacts defensively. He becomes indignant, aggressive and cold. He detaches emotionally for fear of yet another (narcissistic) injury. He devalues the person who made the disparaging remark. By holding the critic in contempt, by diminishing the stature of the discordant conversant �?he minimises the impact on himself of the disagreement or criticism. Like a trapped animal, the narcissist is forever on the lookout: was this remark meant to demean him? Was this sentence a deliberate attack? Gradually, his mind turns into a chaotic battlefield of paranoia and ideas of reference until he loses touch with reality and retreats to his own world of fantasised grandiosity. When the disagreement or criticism or disapproval or approbation are PUBLIC, though �?the narcissist tends to regard them as Narcissistic Supply! Only when they are expressed in private �?does the narcissist rage against them. The cerebral narcissist is competitive and intolerant of criticism or disagreement. The subjugation and subordination of others demand the establishment of his undisputed intellectual superiority or professional authority. Alexander Lowen has an excellent exposition of this "hidden or tacit competition". The cerebral narcissist aspires to perfection. Thus, even the slightest and most inconsequential challenge to his authority is inflated by him. Hence, the disproportionateness of his reactions. Some narcissists employ denial mechanisms, which they apply to their "extensions" (=family, business, workplace, friends) as well. Take, for example, the narcissist’s family. Narcissists often instruct, order, or threaten their children into hiding the truth of abuse, malfunction, maladaptation, fear, pervasive sadness, violence, mutual hatred and mutual repulsion which are the hallmarks of the narcissistic family. "Not to launder the dirty laundry outside" is a common sentence. The whole family conforms to the fantastic, grandiose, perfect and superior narrative invented by the narcissist. The family becomes an extension of the False Self. This is an integral function of the Sources of Secondary Narcissistic Supply. Criticising, disagreeing, or exposing the fiction and lies, penetrating the family's facade �?are considered to be mortal sins. The sinner is immediately subjected to severe and constant emotional harassment, guilt and blame �?and to abuse, including physical abuse. This state of things is especially typical of families with a case of sexual abuse. Behaviour modification techniques are liberally used by the narcissist to ensure that the skeletons do stay in the family cupboards. An amusing by-product of this atmosphere of concealment and falsity is mutiny. The narcissist's spouse or his adolescent children are likely to exploit this soft spot of the narcissist to express their rebellion against him as a figure of reference and authority or as a role model. The first thing to crumble in the narcissist's family is the mass denial and the secretiveness so diligently cultivated by him. Sam |
|
Reply
| |
What would happen to an N if he took the drug ecstasy/MDMD? It is supposed to cause intense empathy for others. Since it has been shown that parts of the N brain are actually disfunctional, would stimulating these areas with drugs have a positive effect? Now that I have confronted N with his lies, he is acting like a victim. Rather than own up to his deceptions he acts as if I have been the meanie here. He even denied something and asked how bad was my memory! He is totally fabricating something and then acting angry that I don't "remember" it! Does he know he is fabricating it...or has he convinced himself that it really happened his way? Doesn't he know what he is doing? Char |
|
Reply
| |
Posted For Dr. Vaknin: Hi, Char, There is no reasearch regarding the effects of specific drugs on people diagnosed with NPD. NPD per se is NOT treated with medication. It is usually subjected to talk therapy. The underlying disorder is treated by long-term psychodynamic therapy. Other PDs (NPD rarely comes alone. It usually appears with other PDs) are treated separately and according to their own characteristics. But phenomena, which are often associated with NPD, such as depression or OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder), ARE treated with medication. Rumour has it that SSRI's (such as Fluoxetine, known as Prozac) might have adverse effects if the primary disorder is NPD. They sometimes lead to the Serotonin syndrome, which includes agitation and exacerbates the rage attacks typical of a narcissist. SSRIs do lead at times to delirium and a manic phase and even to psychotic microepisodes. This is not the case with the heterocyclics, MAO and mood stabilisers, such as lithium. Blockers and inhibitors are regularly applied without discernible adverse side effects (as far as NPD is concerned). Additional cognitive-behavioural therapies are often applied to treat OCD and sometimes depression. To summarise: Not enough is known about the biochemistry of NPD. There seems to be some vague link to Serotonin but no one knows for sure. There isn't a reliable NON-INTRUSIVE method to measure brain and central nervous system Serotonin levels anyhow, so it is mostly guesswork at this stage. Regarding narcissists and substance abuse: Pathological narcissism is an addiction to Narcissistic Supply, the narcissist's drug of choice. It is, therefore, not surprising that other addictive and reckless behaviours �?workaholism, alcoholism, drug abuse, pathological gambling, compulsory shopping, or reckless driving �?piggyback on this primary dependence. The narcissist �?like other types of addicts �?derives pleasure from these exploits. But they also sustain and enhance his grandiose fantasies as "unique", "superior", "entitled", and "chosen". They place him above the laws and pressures of the mundane and away from the humiliating and sobering demands of reality. They render him the centre of attention �?but also place him in "splendid isolation" from the madding and inferior crowd. Such compulsory and wild pursuits provide a psychological exoskeleton. They are a substitute to quotidian existence. They afford the narcissist with an agenda, with timetables, goals, and faux achievements. The narcissist �?the adrenaline junkie �?feels that he is in control, alert, excited, and vital. He does not regard his condition as dependence. The narcissist firmly believes that he is in charge of his addiction, that he can quit at will and on short notice. The narcissist denies his cravings for fear of "losing face" and subverting the flawless, perfect, immaculate, and omnipotent image he projects. When caught red handed, the narcissist underestimates, rationalises, or intellectualises his addictive and reckless behaviours �?converting them into an integral part of his grandiose and fantastic False Self. Thus, a drug abusing narcissist may claim to be conducting first hand research for the benefit of humanity �?or that his substance abuse results in enhanced creativity and productivity. The dependence of some narcissists becomes a way of life: busy corporate executives, race car drivers, or professional gamblers come to mind. The narcissist's addictive behaviours take his mind off his inherent limitations, inevitable failures, painful and much-feared rejections, and the Grandiosity Gap �?the abyss between the image he projects (the False Self) and the injurious truth. They relieve his anxiety and resolve the tension between his unrealistic expectations and inflated self-image �?and his incommensurate achievements, position, status, recognition, intelligence, wealth, and physique. Thus, there is no point in treating the dependence and recklessness of the narcissist without first treating the underlying personality disorder. The narcissist's addictions serve deeply ingrained emotional needs. They intermesh seamlessly with the pathological structure of his disorganised personality, with his character faults, and primitive defence mechanisms. Techniques such as "12 steps" may prove more efficacious in treating the narcissist's grandiosity, rigidity, sense of entitlement, exploitativeness, and lack of empathy. This is because �?as opposed to traditional treatment modalities �?the emphasis is on tackling the narcissist's psychological makeup, rather than on behaviour modification. The narcissist's overwhelming need to feel omnipotent and superior can be co-opted in the therapeutic process. Overcoming an addictive behaviour can be �?truthfully �?presented by the therapist as a rare and impressive feat, worthy of the narcissist's unique mettle. Narcissists fall for these transparent pitches surprisingly often. But this approach can backfire. Should the narcissist relapse �?an almost certain occurrence �?he will feel ashamed to admit his fallibility, need for emotional sustenance, and impotence. He is likely to avoid treatment altogether and convince himself that now, having succeeded once to get rid of his addiction, he is self-sufficient and omniscient. Thank you. I hope you found some of this exchange helpful. Take care there. Sam |
|
First
Previous
2-13 of 13
Next
Last
|
|