my question:


Previous relationships have caused hurt, anger and sometimes guilt but i
have always stayed strong. I would know when these relationships had come to
an end and never looked back. I would leave optimistically looking forward
to my new found happiness

1.Why do i feel that i may regret this decision to leave my N and will not
find the soul mate that i thought he was and he is still insisting he is?

Here's Nettie's history:

 

From: nettie  (Original Message)

Sent: 3/11/2004 7:34 AM

I met a guy 3yrs ago. At the time i was an independant single parent with four children, successfully self employed and confident. He was working in a neighbours garden as a tree surgeon and it was an instant attraction between us. He pursued me for 6months before i plucked up the courage to meet him. I had not met anyone before that i felt nervous about meeting and i used to get butterflys with the very thought of it. A nice feeling though. 14yrs my junior, fit, goodlooking, fun and very different. Actually quite odd but i liked that difference in him. Not my ususal type who spent many a night in the pub drinking until they fell over. He did not drink, had many interesting hobbies so to me, he was a great match. (although i liked the odd tipple). I first started noticing his need to "pump" himself up all the time and look for the reaction and praise from me. Blatantly flexing his muscles in front of me and others, showing me his achievements and talking about them for hours on end. Butting in conversations with a "one up" story in front of my friends and trying to belittle them. It was starting to get embaressing so i told him that he did not have to do these things as they would like him much more if he did'nt. He chose to stop socialising with them which made it awkward for me. We split up many times in the 1st two years in which time he met various women from the internet. He told me that sexually he was not into these women but still went through "the motions" even though he found a couple of them repulsive. This obviously sickened me as he always said he could not do that unless he had feelings for someone? So why did he do it? Why did he have to tell me? All of them older than him, most financially secure and in good positions of employment. One of them was a psychiatrist who he spent hours talking to and she deduced that he had a split personality. Thank god he didnt pay for this advice. He came back to me after this in tears with the realisation of his problems and started refering to himself as two people. He liked one of them but the bad one was the one who kept tormenting me. Not him, it was them! The things he does to me are too many to mention and to be honest if i wrote about them they would probably seem trivial to others but they affect me so much. Our main arguments were about the way he spoke to me in his patrionising, condecending, ignorant manner. Everything that anyone wanted to do had to be his way and if i argued that i would just for once, want something done my way i would get the patrionising tone of voice "ok, ok, ok, have it all your way but dont blame me". I started to feel like a dummy and soon learnt it best not to have an opinion. I got into a bad habit of drinking and then i was labelled an alcoholic. That was the point when i found this site. I was determined that this man had a mental dissorder and when i read the notes i shook from head to foot. This was him. Apart from the above, he is a simple man with no money, his own buisiness which is not doing too great and debts coming out of his ears. He lives in a house that he does not own, has basically destructed by knocking walls down, plaster off walls, ripped ceilings down, dug massive holes in the garden and does the housework only when i go round there which is once in every few months. And i still love this man? For months i listened to his grand illusions as to how we were going to have a massive house, a farmstead with a koi fishery, a lake, horses, flash cars ect. ect. but i am a realistic person and could not respond to him the way he wanted me too and then blamed me for putting him down, being non supportive, trying to hold him back! He finally dropped all that with me but carried it on with my children who just went along with it to humour him i suppose. We all have hopes and dreams but they have to realistic goals. Some may say that these things are harmless and perhaps they are but when you are with that person it drains you mentally. I got so close at one point and thought we were on the straight and narrow and could live like normal people but something else will happen, another "great scheme" will be suggested to me which i cannot answer enthusitically because it's so not possible. He has changed in one way and that is his spending. He used to buy something, have little use out of it, give it away and then upgrade. Money wasted all the time. Now he is more carefull but i think that is more to please me and keep me quiet. I almost re-mortgaged my house to pay off  his debts but the original figure jumped so much that i pulled out. He went mental and started smashing objects in his house. He claims to be a non violent man but i have seen him lose his cool on quite a few occassions like he is a time bomb waiting to explode. One time was with my eldest boy when a play fight got too much because he did not want my son getting one over on him. He is always sorry after. Not one member of his family talk to me, he has alienated me from his friends and my second eldest son has been working for him and hears people talk about me whilst my N laughs with them. He told my son that i my eldest was my favourite which upset my son and caused problems between us. This has since been resolved with my son but i hate the thought that he felt that to be true for weeks before it came out. The strange thing is,  i honestly believe that when that man tells me a thousand times a day that he loves me and when he constantly cuddles me, he means it. When he tells me that i am the best thing that has happened to him and he cant live without me, he means it. When he says that he has no interest, no matter how much younger or prettier then me, he wouldnt swap me for anyone, he means it. The closeness we have is apparent as well as the love but the pain i feel when he distances himself from me is like we are total strangers. He wants me to be the woman at home to look after the house, the kids and him.......but, he says he is not in the postion financially at the moment. He never has been and i dont think he ever will be. We are still emailing each other with our views and opinions. some good some bad. I have got no confidence anymore, a low self esteem, no job and have lost interests in all my hobbies. I spend alot of time on this site reading, trying to work out IF he is NPD or just a guy who has had a bad childhood with a very low self esteem that needs looking after. He read the notes i sent him when i first found them. He was shocked and agreed that it was possible but has since been in denial. Although he is reading up on it again he is praying that it is not him as he said he would rather kill himself than know that he was this monster. He is waiting for an appointment with a shrink but as the notes say, this man thinks he is so intelligent that he will know better than the shrink. I am not free yet.

I'm sorry Dr. Sam. I got those mixed up. Nettie is having trouble posting, so I am posting for her right now.

 

Here is tomorrow's question:

My unconfirmed but obvious N was not what i would call a pathalogical liar
but i caught him out on "white lies". Mainly to do with spending money he
could not afford to spend.
He did not cover his tracks very well and would slip up some where along the
line and then laugh when i confronted him.
Is this part of the game to get caught?
Is it another way of the attention being focused on him?

 

 

Welcome, Nettie,

 

You ask:

 

Sam:

 

Obviously, he answers some important psychological needs you have. What are those needs - only you know. Sometimes it requires professional help to uncover and unravel codependence.

The phenomenon you are describing is called "follies a deux" (madness in twosome). It consists of the co-creation of an imaginary universe in which certain values and beliefs of the co-creators (a couple, two friends, colleagues, political, or business leaders) are enhanced and magnified. This "magnification" and "support" (validation, empowerment, and "objective" "proof") is the result of the total conformity of both participants with an unwritten code of conduct which excludes critical thinking, contradiction, logic, and comparison. The parties are convinced of their superiority, victimhood, righteousness, and in ultimately prevailing over "others" "out there". They are certain of the authenticity and veracity of their beliefs and of the inevitability of the triumph of their values. In this warped sense, the follies-a-deux system is highly dependent on outside approval and highly vulnerable to criticism - this is why it was fostered in the first place: as a defence mechanism against an insensitive and cruel world...

Narcissists often encourage a "shared psychosis" - the two of us against the whole world, we are such a special couple, we are soul mates, etc. This is a manipulative technique and has very little to do with drab reality.

 

In extreme cases, the couple is trapped in a fantasy world and loses touch with other people.

 

Magical thinking is typical of the narcissist - he feels invulnerable, part of a cosmic scheme, immune to punishment, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, has ideas of reference, persecutory delusions, and so on. But this propensity rarely deteriorates to occult beliefs and superstitions (as it does in the Schizotypal Personality Disorder).

Of course, if pretending to believe in esotericism guarantees him Narcissistic Supply - the narcissist would do it instantly. If he can brainwash his mate, spouse, or partner into believing it as well (as a manipulative ploy) - he would not hesitate. It is all part of the follies-a-deux, the psychosis shared by the narcissist and the other member of the couple.

These may be of interest:

 

 

 

 

 

Take care.

 

Sam

Hi, Nettie,

 

You ask:

 

Is this part of the game to get caught?
Is it another way of the attention being focused on him?

Sam:

 

Maybe you don't sufficiently matter to him. He doesn't even bother to cover up his tracks because he doesn't care about you.

 

Or maybe he knows that you will never punish him for his transgressions. That he has blank immunity.

 

Or maybe he just wants to be punished. Inside, he feels so worthless, a failure, a loser, a "bad person", deserving to be chastised and castigated.

 

Punishment-seeking behaviors are a complex subject in pathological narcissism. See these:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take care.

 

Sam

My question today is:

My ex N lives in dirt, chaos and destruction but his fishing, photographic
equipment and for example C.d's and P.C  are in such good order. I do not
understand the reasoning behind this because i would expect a person to
either be tidy or untidy by nature. The two conflict.
When we had talks of him moving in with me he would panic as to whether my
children would damage his belongings even though my youngets is 10 and my
eldest is 18. Nothing i said could assure him that this would not happen.
On the other hand, he had no respect for my belongings.
Couples move in, merge and share but i knew that his stuff would always be
kept locked away from harms reach and it would be a constant reason for an
argument.
Do these people really want to be alone but cannot?


I hope this question makes sense because it has always bugged me. He could
have had anything i possesed.

Hi, Nettie,

Can inanimate objects serve as Sources of Narcissistic Supply?

Yes, they can.

The Discarder

Any thing can serve as a Source of Narcissistic Supply, providing that it has the potential to attract people' attention and be the subject of their admiration. This is why narcissists are enamoured of status symbols, i.e., objects, which comprehensively encapsulate and concisely convey a host of data regarding their owners. These data generate a reaction in people: they make them look, admire, envy, dream, compare, or aspire. In short: they elicit Narcissistic Supply.

But, generally, discarder narcissists do not like souvenirs and the memories they bring. They are afraid to get emotionally attached to them and then get hurt if the objects are lost or stolen or expropriated or taken by creditors. Narcissists are sad people. Almost anything can depress them: a tune, a photograph, a work of art, a book, a mental image, or a voice. Narcissists are people who divorced their emotions because their emotions are mostly negative and painful, coloured by their basic trauma, by the early abuses that they suffered.

Objects, situations, voices, sights, colours �?can provoke and evoke unwanted memories. The narcissist tries to avoid them. The discarder narcissist callously discards or gives away hard-won objects, memorabilia, gifts, and property. This behaviour sustains his sense of control and lack of vulnerability. It also proves to him that he is unique, not like "other people" who are attached to their material belongings. He is above this.

The Accumulator

This kind of narcissist jealously guards his possessions �?his collections, his furniture, his cars, his children, his women, his money, his credit cards�?Objects comfort the narcissist. They remind him of his status. They are linked to gratifying events and, thus, constitute Secondary Sources of Narcissistic Supply. They attest to the narcissist's wealth, his connections, his achievements, his friendships, his conquests, and his glorious past. No wonder he is so attached to them. Objects connected with failures or embarrassments have no place in his abode. They get cast out.

Moreover, owning the right objects often guarantees the uninterrupted flow of Narcissistic Supply. A flashy car or an ostentatious house help the somatic narcissist attract sexual partners. Owning a high powered computer and a broadband connection, or a sizable and expensive library, facilitate the intellectual pursuits of the cerebral narcissist. Sporting a glamorous wife and politically correct kids is indispensable in the careers of the narcissistic politician, or diplomat.

The narcissist parades his objects, flaunts them, consumes them conspicuously, praises them vocally, draws attention to them compulsively, brags about them incessantly. When they fail to elicit Narcissistic Supply �?admiration, adulation, marvel �?the narcissist feels wounded, humiliated, deprived, discriminated against, the victim of a conspiracy, unloved.

Objects often make the accumulator narcissist. They are an inseparable part of his pathology. This type of narcissist is possessive. He obsesses about his belongings and collects them compulsively. He "brands" them as his own. He infuses them with his spirit and his personality. He attributes to them his traits. He projects to them his thwarted emotions, his fears, his hopes. They are an integral part of him, inseparable, providing emotional succour.

Such a narcissist says: "My car is daring and unstoppable", or "How clever is my computer!", or "My dog is cunning", or "My wife craves attention". He often compares people to the inanimate. Himself he sees as a computer or sex machine. His wife he regards as some kind of luxury good. The narcissist loves objects and relates to them �?things he fails to do with humans. This is why he objectifies people �?it makes it easier for him to interact with them. Objects are predictable, reliable, always there, obedient, easy to control and manipulate, universally desired.

Accumulators and Narcissistic Handles

Still, not all narcissists are like this. Accumulator narcissists take to objects and memorabilia, to voices and tunes, to sights and to works of art �?as reminders of their past glory and of their potential future grandeur. Many narcissists collect proofs and trophies of their sexual prowess, dramatic talent, past wealth, or intellectual achievements. They file them away almost compulsively. These are the Narcissistic Handles.

The Narcissistic Handle operates through the mechanism of narcissistic branding. An example: objects, which belonged to former lovers, are "stamped" by them and become their full-fledged representations. They are fetishized. By interacting with these objects, the narcissist recreates the narcissistic-supply-rich situation, within which the objects were introduced into his life in the first place. This is magical thinking. Some clairvoyants claim to be able to extract all the information regarding the present, past and future states of the owner of an object they hold. It is as though the object, the memory, or the sound carry the narcissist back to where and when Narcissistic Supply was abundant.

This powerful combination of branding and evidencing is what gives rise to the Narcissistic Contagion. This is the ability of the narcissist to objectify people and to anthropomorphesise objects in order to derive the maximum Narcissistic Supply from them. The narcissist is a pathogen. He transforms his human and non-human environments alike.

On the one hand, he invests as much affection and emotions in an inanimate object as healthier people do in human beings. On the other hand, he transforms people around him into functions, or objects.

In their effort to satisfy the needs of the narcissist �?his nearest or dearest very often neglect their own. They feel that something is sick and wrong in their lives. But they are so entrapped, so much part of the narcissist's personal mythology that they cannot cut loose. Manipulated through guilt, leveraged through fear �?they are but a shadow of their former selves. They have contracted the disease of narcissism. They have been infected and poisoned. They have been branded.

More here:

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal53.html

Narcissists are terrified of being without sources of supply (alone):

http://samvak.tripod.com/3.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq76.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/msla.html

Although some narcissists prefer it:

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq76.html

Take care.

Sam

I have recently been thinking WHY have i allowed this man to do this to me?
I was or am a strong woman, sensitive but not easily down trodden. I have
silently battled against my father for years with the occassional outburst
between us as he insists on me always doing things his way. My father has
always wanted to control me, make me feel bad or guilty since i was a child.
Neither of my parents were affectionate to me when i was young unyet i show
an abundance of affection and love towards my children. My mother has the
love but finds it hard to show it and also has been controled by my father.
Everyone saw my fathers control as him just protecting me but i have
recently rejected this and we have not spoken for a few months now.
I have come to the assumption that my ex.N has taken over my fathers role
and this is why he had such a hold over me. Is it in my subcontious to be
with a man like this?
Secondly, even though i loved my ex.N and still do, why did i shout abuse
back at him and tell him that i thought he was pathetic, stupid and
childlike.?
This only made me feel guilty. Was it frustration or revenge?

Dear Nettie,

 

I can't really say why you behaved the way you did. You are better qualified to answer your own question. But you may have been doing the right thing intuitively - see these:

 

Dr, Vaknin,

 

I would like to thank you for your support along with everyone else on this site. I have found it amazing as to how similar our experiences are and only by talking to someone who has gone through the same issues can you start to heal.

Previous relationships had hardened me. My guard was up when i met this man as protection for myself and my children. I never thought it possible for someone to get to me the way he did but i suppose that's what they do best.

Their only real achievement is to break peoples spirits.

I congratulate him on doing that.

I will look up all the links you have sent me as i do not want to be codependant to anyone.

Thanks again.

Nettie