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| | From:  LiamsMommy15 (Original Message) | Sent: 17/03/2008 9:15 p.m. |
My sister, K and I have been talking about our other sister A today. A has herself in a horrible mess right now with two men. K and I have tried to figure out what is wrong with A as her behaviour is BIZARRE to us. Morally and ethically NOT what our family is like at all! Today we looked up the meaning of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and OMG her picture should be there! Without going into detail about her actual behaviours over the past few years, she exhibits every sign and symptom that is listed on the Mayo Clinic's site for this disorder. I've been doing Google Searches all day and every time it describes her personality and behaviour to a "T"! However, what I am NOT finding is how to help her! I sent her the link to the Mayo Clinic's site in the hopes that it might hit home with her, but from what I'm reading about this disorder, she won't think she has any of those symptoms! She's also angry with me right now because I tried to force her to deal with her "two man" situation. I am significantly older than her at 42 and she is 29 (30 next month) and have been more like a mother than sister. She became so angry she called me a F'g B**ch! I am astounded by this since I NEVER thought I would hear those words from her about me! I feel so utterly helpless right now. I am far away living in another province and have NO idea how to help her but I'm also really angry with her and now feel bad for it. A has involved K a lot in her recent situation and K is starting to become angry and hurt as well. Her behaviour is causing a rift in her relationships across the board, not just with men but with her family. Are there ANY resources out there that I or my other sisters could use to help her?? It's quite discouraging to read that Adult N disorder may be untreatable! Is it possible for one N type person to be attracted to another because I think her CL spouse may also suffer from this disorder. Thanks for any help or information. I apologize if I have overstepped any rules or boundaries in this forum but this is my first time here and my first post! W |
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Hi W,
My experience with this disorder is -- these Ns hurt others. So, if you are choosing to be involved with her, even trying to help her, the main result is going to be that you get hurt.
If K is being hurt, she has a choice to let A make her own mistakes and learn or not learn from them but neither you nor she can make A change, nor can you make her see that she has a problem. All you can control is whether you get hurt or not.
Pretty |
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| | | From: scotty | Sent: 18/03/2008 10:44 a.m. |
Hi Liamsmommy15,
I'm sorry to hear that your sister is afflicted with NPD, but it's good you found this group because now you can be better prepared to deal with the anger and hurt that your sister's condition is causing.
My situation with my Nsis is so similar (my original post is not too far away) and recently she has alienated the family with her boyfriend choices, her stubbornness to accept responsibility for an adult life and her outright lies. Not to mention, the "it's all about me" syndrome.
For awhile I had to establish NC (no contact) with the Nsis for my own sanity but I am back to speaking with her. From reading other stories and advice on the board, I learned that I needed to draft up my own boundaries and practice indifference to much of her life that annoyed and angered me. This helped me tremendously (thanks members and NPD board!).
However, I'm with pretty on N-relatives helping themselves. Most of the time they are in denial about their own dysfunctional ways, much less something like NPD. The only thing I can suggest is to bring up therapy to her - just in a generalized way. Don't mention NPD - let the therapist sort it out if your sis agrees to go. My Nsis is in therapy but this current therapist diagnosed depression - which IMO gives my sister an excuse to act out, but again, I'm not the professional here.
Otherwise, it is up to you and your family on how you react to her behavior. Also, when you take away the approval (because that's what N's constantly seek), you might find her coming around a little. When my Nsis realized that my mother and I were not going to budge about approving a part of her life that we felt was harmful and dangerous to her, she has come around a little bit - not all the way though.
Good luck and feel free to post with questions anytime!
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From what I understand, you can't change an N, you can only change how YOU deal with the N in your life, so that it's easier for you to be around them and so that you get something closer to the response you want/need.
BUT that N will still hurt others and be ME ME ME ME ME, it's their nature or perhaps I should say, it's their disorder.
I don't know what to say to help you. Telling an N, what you think they are, ie a narcissist , does NOT help and can make things worse.
I would recommend some books for you to read.... 'Trapped in the Mirror '(at the back, the author talks a little about how to interact with the N in you life) the book is by Elan Golomb.
I also am currently reading 'The Narcissistic Family- diagnosis and treatment.' and would highly recommend it. It's written by therapists FOR therapists but is very good and I think would help those who have to continue to 'deal' with the N in their lives. The authors are Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M.Pressman. For a small book it was quite expensive. Trapped in the Mirror was really cheap to buy with Play.com.
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P.S I also meant to say, sorry that you have an N in your life. It's not easy. On the left hand side(menu) is lots of reading, you will find all sorts of info there.
You asked if N's attract other N's, the answer is yes they can. My mother and father were both N's, though different types. My father was totally under my mothers control, his N behaviours were usually more subtle, passive-aggressive, though he could have bouts of violence. My mother on the other hand RAGED, was overtly aggresive/violent to me and not much was ever passive about her. She was incredibly manipulative. |
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W, Don't expect the lightbulb to light over her head and that she'll see herself in any of the descriptions. The N's motto is "I'm ok, you're not". She may even turn it around and say it describes you and your other sibling and not her. N's believe that they are on some higher plain of knowledge and wisdom and we are the ones who can't keep up with them. They think they are beyond the disciplines of our mundane little lives. My Nsis is an addict and alcoholic who just got out of jail for having her 2nd DUI in 2 months. To this day she won't admit to being drunk either time, it was just she was overly tired while driving and the cop only arrested her because she turned him down for a date. She's 43 years old and is living off our father and that's ok with her. I (according to her) only work because I've gotten caught up in the materialism of the world. All I have to say is, it's a good thing the family is so materialistic or she'd have no one to sponge off of! Keep reading and good luck. Bunny |
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IF YOU TRY TO HELP A N, THEY WILL HELP THEMSELVES TO EVERYTHING YOU GOT (EMOTIONALLY AND MENTALLY). BUT, BE CAREFUL IN TRYING TO DIAGNOSE SOME ONE AS A N. SOMETIMES PEOPLE JUST HAVE PROBLEMS, AND IT IS NOT RIGHT TO FORCE HELP ON ANYONE! IF THEY WANT IT THEY WILL ASK YOU FOR IT |
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The more you 'talk', 'educate', 'explain', assist her or N's - you are sending her/them message she is 'not alright'
Many months of counseling & YEARS of living -it's one big circle and you will learn all that YOUR heart and energy spent is TOTALLY useless and needlessly wanted.
THEY DO NOT HAVE ISSUES, it is YOUR issue.
The only thing you are able to change is YOU and your reactions in life or towards others. You also may also realize that your own behaviors or your role that were a part of the dysfunction as well.
In the end, find comfort in the Serenity prayer
'To ACCEPT the things I cannot change... the COURAGE to change the things I can.... and the WISDOM to know the difference" |
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hi. You can't help them....and when you try, they see this as your weakness and its only a matter of time before they target you. You can set firm boundaries and stick by them.but really NC is the only way to keep yourself sane. |
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By detaching and allowing her to suffer the consquences of her actions
By refusing to be her supply - granted this doesnt
doesnt help her but it is liberating for you
She cant and wont be helped - sad but true
She is broken and noone and nothing can fix her
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| | | From: Koodra | Sent: 14/04/2008 7:54 p.m. |
Answer: You can't help her.
"Helping" her will only hurt you.
Cut your losses. You cannot be responsible nor control the actions of another Adult human being with free will.
It is not your place nor your business to help her.
Let her go you can't control her any more than you can control the weather. |
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