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My father is the N in my family. I am NC with NF since November when I had the most ludicrous conversation in which I asked him to stop insulting me- especially in front of my in-laws (I graciously invited him to Thanksgiving so he wouldn't have to eat a NightHawk alone). As I drove him home we discussed his constant put downs. He claimed I was too sensitive. So I said maybe that was true, but when you have a healthy relationship with someone, if they FEEL they are being insulted, then they ARE being insulted- who else could judge an insult but the insulted? Therefore, the insulter should stop his behavior. He affirmed this fact (for the first time ever- in childhood it was his God-given right to insult his own children!). He countered that since I am apparently so ridiculous and sensitive, he can't possibly know when he's doing it (insulting). I told him that's perfectly understandable, and I proposed that if it happens again, I will patiently and without hostility point out what I perceive as an insult- then, slowly over time he will see the pattern. He said that if I was going to ask such inconveniences of him it would probably be better if we didn't have contact. I politely said goodbye! He still calls, but I do not answer. I recently had to see him at my cousin's wedding but I managed to avoid him for the most part. Also, he is 5'6" and my wonderful husband is 6'4" and my hubbie intimidates the hell out of him.
From what I hear, before they were married, he was 'the charmer' toward my mother. She spent the next 35 years reminiscing those first two. I don't know what to label her; codependent, enabler? Both of those seem to connote a deep-seated acknowledgment and attachment to the chaos. All I can remember is her engaging in the extremely obvious forms of his emotional abuse (mostly cheating) when directly aimed at her, but acting quite oblivious to the rest of his one-man stage act of Dante's Inferno. This very intelligent woman would seem completely daft- like a confused child- when he was at all subtle (if you could call it that). Picture Steve Carell's face on the poster for The 40-Year-Old Virgin. I still hold some resentment against her for this- especially her selective memory. To this day I tell the same decades-old stories of my abuse to her and each time they are new to her, "He SAID that?"
Anyway, she has supposedly kicked him out for good, though this on/off pattern is at least as old as my younger brother, so 22 years. She drew up divorce papers (paralegal) giving him way more than he could ever deserve, yet they have remained unsigned for over a year now.
They do not have much contact, he has taken a job overseas, but he does cellu-stalk her and she will give in and pick up after about ten phone calls in a row. I programmed Rockwell's 'Somebody's Watchin Me' as his ringtone on her phone. Step by step, though, he is being erased from her existence. There is only one hiccup... my brother is the new N, and he is worse than NF ever was.
NB is home from college for the summer and he is out of control. He stole $3000 from my mother from January to April. At Christmas I had a direct talk with him that he needs to curb his spending and quit badgering her for more because she is McBroke and he agreed and one month later he hacked her account! But he has returned a hometown hero. Nevermind the fact that he failed 4 classes this year, (his first year at University).
Since his return NB has done nothing but bully my mother for whatever he wants and then insult her, me, and anyone else around because we are all such idiots. He told my aunt who has been an M.D. for over 20 years that she is a foolish joke to question the accepted Big Bang Theory and adjoining Theory of Evolution (for religious reasons). He told me that I didn't have the right to neuter my own dogs because it's "castration" and the funniest/sickest reason of all was: they're not my dogs anymore they're his dogs...? He wants to take one back with him to college so I better give it up! What?? Trying to explain how my dogs are my dogs and also none of his business was EXHAUSTING. If he wants something, then he is entitled to it is his philosophy and HE CAN'T SEE how absurd that is.
Anyway, the point of all of this is that my mother, who would jump off a cliff if enough people told her they would love her because of it, is back to square one. She goes around trying to appease my NB beyond all boundaries of normality. If anyone else tells him, "No you're wrong" she jumps in to try to mitigate the statement and sugarcoat the intent. She gives him the sun, moon and stars and he is getting worse by the hour: violent tyrades, drunken fights, you name it. This NB would have a serious criminal record if she hadn't spent over $50k making sure none of his escapades went on record.
NB didn't want anyone getting in the way of his complete dominance over my mother so he sent me a go-to-hell email with some of the most cruel insults I have ever heard and that the next time he sees me it will be to dance on my grave. All of this was unprovoked except that *I dared* to disagree with him- over a trivial scientific issue. Needless to say we are NC.
So I guess my question is- how can I save my mother? She is a really good person at heart and she is not without a conscience like the rest of my hopeless family of origin. Help!
Also, I think my NB will possibly kill someone someday. He already beat a guy into unconsciousness with a lead pipe after the guy supposedly took too long in a fast-food drive thru lane at 2:30 a.m. (last year). And NB is constantly talking about how the earth is overpopulated and we need to "thin the herd". I tell him if he truly feels that way than he should sacrifice himself first. He says that why should he when we could just wipe out the entire continent of Africa because they are worthless. I am serious. When I tell him that he is like Hitler, he says to compare anyone to Hitler or Nazis is an automatic forfeit of the debate or argument! What???? When his girlfriend left him two years ago he gathered all her sentimental items and set them on fire. I am the only one on earth that will call B.S. on him and now we are NC and he truly feels invincible. Double Help! |
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| | From:  dekauf | Sent: 26/06/2008 3:14 p.m. |
My Ndad would accuse me of "fanning
the flames" when he did or said something to hurt me. And believe me,
the things he did to mom and I were so very hurtful. He also was the
charmer in public, acted like the devil at home when not given his
way. He said everyone was like that. I felt like if he shot at me and
I was hit, he considered it my fault for getting in the bullet's path.
I hate to discourage you, but you can't 'make them get it'. The only
things they feel is for themselves. They lie, cheat, manipulate, are
stingy, except for themselves, charm- charm is about the most positive
thing I can say about them. He's been gone two years and I've yet to
shed a tear. Mom just died. I miss her terribly! My b biggest regret
is that I couldn't alway make things much better for her. Mom had no
idea what a wealthy woman she was until I got into his office.
Diane in Ks
HermosaFamosaPeligrosa wrote:
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New Message on NARCISSISTIC_PERSONALITY_DISORDER
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From: HermosaFamosaPeligrosa
Message 1 in Discussion
My father is the N in my family. I am NC with NF since November when I had the most ludicrous conversation in which I asked him to stop insulting me- especially in front of my in-laws (I graciously invited him to Thanksgiving so he wouldn't have to eat a NightHawk alone). As I drove him home we discussed his constant put downs. He claimed I was too sensitive. So I said maybe that was true, but when you have a healthy relationship with someone, if they FEEL they are being insulted, then they ARE being insulted- who else could judge an insult but the insulted? Therefore, the insulter should stop his behavior. He affirmed this fact (for the first time ever- in childhood it was his God-given right to insult his own children!). He countered that since I am apparently so ridiculous and sensitive, he can't possibly know when he's doing it (insulting). I told him that's perfectly understandable, and I proposed that if it happens again, I will patiently and without hostility
point out what I perceive as an insult- then, slowly over time he will see the pattern. He said that if I was going to ask such inconveniences of him it would probably be better if we didn't have contact. I politely said goodbye! He still calls, but I do not answer. I recently had to see him at my cousin's wedding but I managed to avoid him for the most part. Also, he is 5'6" and my wonderful husband is 6'4" and my hubbie intimidates the hell out of him.
>From what I hear, before they were married, he was 'the charmer' toward my mother. She spent the next 35 years reminiscing those first two. I don't know what to label her; codependent, enabler? Both of those seem to connote a deep-seated acknowledgment and attachment to the chaos. All I can remember is her engaging in the extremely obvious forms of his emotional abuse (mostly cheating) when directly aimed at her, but acting quite oblivious to the rest of his one-man stage act of Dante's Inferno. This very intelligent woman would seem completely daft- like a confused child- when he was at all subtle (if you could call it that). Picture Steve Carell's face on the poster for The 40-Year-Old Virgin. I still hold some resentment against her for this- especially her selective memory. To this day I tell the same decades-old stories of my abuse to her and each time they are new to her, "He SAID that?"
Anyway, she has supposedly kicked him out for good, though this on/off pattern is at least as old as my younger brother, so 22 years. She drew up divorce papers (paralegal) giving him way more than he could ever deserve, yet they have remained unsigned for over a year now.
They do not have much contact, he has taken a job overseas, but he does cellu-stalk her and she will give in and pick up after about ten phone calls in a row. I programmed Rockwell's 'Somebody's Watchin Me' as his ringtone on her phone. Step by step, though, he is being erased from her existence. There is only one hiccup... my brother is the new N, and he is worse than NF ever was.
NB is home from college for the summer and he is out of control. He stole $3000 from my mother from January to April. At Christmas I had a direct talk with him that he needs to curb his spending and quit badgering her for more because she is McBroke and he agreed and one month later he hacked her account! But he has returned a hometown hero. Nevermind the fact that he failed 4 classes this year, (his first year at University).
Since his return NB has done nothing but bully my mother for whatever he wants and then insult her, me, and anyone else around because we are all such idiots. He told my aunt who has been an M.D. for over 20 years that she is a foolish joke to question the accepted Big Bang Theory and adjoining Theory of Evolution (for religious reasons). He told me that I didn't have the right to neuter my own dogs because it's "castration" and the funniest/sickest reason of all was: they're not my dogs anymore they're his dogs...? He wants to take one back with him to college so I better give it up! What?? Trying to explain how my dogs are my dogs and also none of his business was EXHAUSTING. If he wants something, then he is entitled to it is his philosophy and HE CAN'T SEE how absurd that is.
Anyway, the point of all of this is that my mother, who would jump off a cliff if enough people told her they would love her because of it, is back to square one. She goes around trying to appease my NB beyond all boundaries of normality. If anyone else tells him, "No you're wrong" she jumps in to try to mitigate the statement and sugarcoat the intent. She gives him the sun, moon and stars and he is getting worse by the hour: violent tyrades, drunken fights, you name it. This NB would have a serious criminal record if she hadn't spent over $50k making sure none of his escapades went on record.
NB didn't want anyone getting in the way of his complete dominance over my mother so he sent me a go-to-hell email with some of the most cruel insults I have ever heard and that the next time he sees me it will be to dance on my grave. All of this was unprovoked except that *I dared* to disagree with him- over a trivial scientific issue. Needless to say we are NC.
So I guess my question is- how can I save my mother? She is a really good person at heart and she is not without a conscience like the rest of my hopeless family of origin. Help!
Also, I think my NB will possibly kill someone someday. He already beat a guy into unconsciousness with a lead pipe after the guy supposedly took too long in a fast-food drive thru lane at 2:30 a.m. (last year). And NB is constantly talking about how the earth is overpopulated and we need to "thin the herd". I tell him if he truly feels that way than he should sacrifice himself first. He says that why should he when we could just wipe out the entire continent of Africa because they are worthless. I am serious. When I tell him that he is like Hitler, he says to compare anyone to Hitler or Nazis is an automatic forfeit of the debate or argument! What???? When his girlfriend left him two years ago he gathered all her sentimental items and set them on fire. I am the only one on earth that will call B.S. on him and now we are NC and he truly feels invincible. Double Help!
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| | | From: femfree | Sent: 2/07/2008 10:07 p.m. |
HI HFP. Until your mother asks you for help I doubt there is little you can do. YOu might want to get her Lundy Bancroft's book or Dr. Vaknin's book or some of the ones listed in our recommended books page. It is awful to sit back and watch a loved one so weak and helpless and with such poor or non existant alternatives and rudimentary boundaries be cruelty treat by these predators. The terrible upshot of this is that so often I've seen where both of these types will turn on the very person who is trying to help - that means your mother ends up turning on you and clining all the more to her abuser. That's the danger. |
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Reply
| | | From: femfree | Sent: 2/07/2008 10:08 p.m. |
I don't know why this thread isn't breaking as it usually does.
HI HFP. Until your mother asks you for help I doubt there is little you can do. YOu
might want to get her Lundy Bancroft's book or Dr. Vaknin's book or some of the
ones listed in our recommended books page.
It is awful to sit back and watch a loved one so weak and helpless and with such
poor or non existant alternatives and rudimentary boundaries be cruelty treat by these
predators.
The terrible upshot of this is that so often I've seen where both of these types will turn
on the very person who is trying to help - that means your mother ends up turning on
you and clining all the more to her abuser. That's the danger. |
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