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| | From: -Tammy_S- (Original Message) | Sent: 30/08/2004 3:39 a.m. |
I met X five years ago. He was in a year-long relationship at the time (common-law). I had just made a major career change and it was my first job in my new field. Although I didnÃt work directly under him, he was my boss. For the first six months he barely noticed me, we never had a conversation and (later he told me) he found me quiet, shy, aloof and ëmysteriousÃ. Our contracts ended and he got another job and offered to hire my coworker (my supervisor). At that time she happened to be unavailable but she recommended me for the job, which he reluctantly offered me (I wasnÃt very experienced at the time). I was instantly promoted and saddled with new responsibilities, managing to maintain some semblance of competency with a great deal of his help (he was very patient and reveled in being my teacher, mentor to a degree). From that point forward he wanted me to work by his side on all his projects -- I thought it was because I was exceptional at what I did. His girlfriend also worked on every project with him, albeit in a different department. Two years later we found ourselves embarking on a new contract with high stress and much responsibility. The girlfriend had been hired by another company and was not working with us for the first time. We spent a great deal of time together and he used to complain that she was emotionally and physically distant from him because of her new job (and working up to 15 hours a day), despite the fact that they were living together and spending all their time together on the weekends and holidays. Even though I was morally opposed (so I thought) to having any sort of affair I found myself for the first time sexually attracted to him. I had lost weight and began dressing to suit my body-type and thus began the long periods of eye contact between us, eventually leading to a sexual relationship. He was very supportive and effusive with praise over my work at the same time making it clear that it was just an affair and that he was not leaving his girlfriend. I was too absorbed in my feelings of lust and supposed intellectual connection to care. We seemed to flow so well together, sexually and otherwise; saw eye-to-eye on many things; shared an astounding number of similar interests and complemented each other in many ways very well. In short, soul mates. We continued this way for about three months on a casual level. Eventually she found out (he carelessly left a letter I wrote him lying around) and confronted us both at work. He actually convinced her to apologize to me in front of others for her inappropriate behaviour and this made me feel terrible and guilty. She asked me out for a drink and she told me that he was bored with her, didnt touch her anymore and that no matter what she did she would never be enough for X. The girlfriend also told me that when she and X started dating she had been living with a man and he was living with, sleeping with, vacationing with and doing activities with (ie: relationship) his roommate of five years (met through an ad). She broke up with her boyfriend and within two weeks of dating X, he had asked her to move in with him. He hadnÃt even bothered to tell his roommate (later claiming they were just friends), just brought the new woman around until the roomie moved out. She also told me that she knew that he had at least two affairs on a previous relationship (7 years) with the woman who was the mother of his teenage son and that every relationship he had been in had ended (there have been about 7 or 8-heÃs 45) when he replaced a current girlfriend with another. Soon after this we ended the sexual relationship and I left the country on a 3-month vacation that I had been planning for a while, hoping to put it behind me. During this time he pursued me relentlessly via email and still harboring strong feelings for this man, I encouraged the exchange. He was almost obsessive in his correspondence, freaking out if he didnÃt hear from me for a week (I was camping throughout India at the time!) and calling my brother constantly to see if heÃd heard from me. Of course the girlfriend found the emails and moved out of his house. Later I found out he didnt try and stop her but just stared morosely while she packed. Then he would go over to her friends house (where she was staying) every night to try and get her to come home. She demanded that he give me up and have no contact with me but he refused, saying he was in love with both of us! He even suggested at one point that the three of us live and work together! A short time later he went away for 2 months for some spiritual growth in a monastery in Asia. He returned the same time I did, claiming to have gained great insight he and expressed remorse for his behaviour and the pain he had caused so many women. He was interested in having a relationship with me and said he was in love with me and had changed his ways. It was a struggle for about four months he suffered from severe mood swings and would withdraw and refuse to talk to me. I tried to be supportive and strong, attributing it to readjustment following our travels. Then one night he took me out to dinner at the same restaurant he took me to for my birthday and said, I dont know what I want. I need to be on my own for a while because Ive never really been single before. Dont think of this as rejection, just a time out. Later I found out that he went back to the girlfriend to try and work it out but she asked him if he was over me and he admitted he wasnt so she said she said she didnt want to see him again. To make matters worse we were working together and every day he would flirt with me and make suggestive comments. This made me incredibly confused and stressed and eventually I left for another job. We ended up sleeping together a few times (with no expectations on either side) during the next nine months but one night he showed up on my doorstep and declared, I'VE decided I want to have a relationship with YOU (lucky me). He told me he really loved me and that I was the one. He talked about having kids, about living together and buying a house together eventually. Well, his wonderful, caring behaviour lasted about two months and then the very subtle psychological games began: -Criticism: My driving and parking skills were lacking and my car was too sporty for him (he drove a wreck with several huge dents that everyone laughed at). I stopped drinking Diet Coke but my iced tea substitute was unacceptable and drinking coffee without cream bugged him. My eating habits were horrendous (Im a vegetarian who needs two or more meals a day he was pressuring me to cut it back to one meal a day) and I was a bad influence. He used to accuse me of affecting my voice depending on the occasion, asking me constantly Why is your voice higher (or lower)? He commented on the way I swung my arms when I came down a steep mountain (telling me it was just an observation on his part). My shoes were impractical, my clothes were too tight and not stylish enough. He stopped complimenting me, yet when we first got together he loved and commented constantly on my unique look and great taste in clothes. He was always accusing me of having a negative body image and then focusing on the body parts that I didnt like, grabbing my belly and making comments about my weight (I had gained back about 15 pounds). I had a chipped tooth (that I had a dentist appointed for in a few months) that embarrassed him. I shampooed my hair too frequently (once a day) and wore the wrong deodorant. He shrugged indifferently over my haircuts yet demanded approval and feedback every time he went in for a trim. My apartment was a dump and I had too much stuff. He hated most of my furnishings but would have gladly accepted anything he liked if I'd have given it to him. I had cable and therefore was uncultured. He changed his mind about living together because I was too messy (I never saw him clean his own house and he had mounds of clutter EVERYWHERE) and because I didn't recycle enough or care enough about the environment (untrue, of course). I was disappointed but went and bought my own apartment; he hated the area, the stores I shopped in and thought I spent too much money at the wrong time. He was pressuring me to buy a house in his neighbourhood instead but knew full well I couldnt afford it. I guess he forgot how many times he asked me to move in with him the first month we were together. I refused then because I didnÃt want to live in HIS HOUSE that he had shared with his last 3 girlfriends. -Mocking: Used to repeat, like a parrot, certain words. I would say something like Do you want to go hiking? and he would answer, Hiking? in a long tone, using an affected voice. He went from using sweet endearments to calling me "nicknames" like "Stinky" and Poopy that he knew I hated, and did it in public in front of strangers. -Ignoring: I would literally beg for a conversation and when he would grant me some time, he would either speak in the third person about his feelings or launch into an abstract analysis of the differences between the thinking of women and men. Most times though he would stare at me blankly without answering or pretend to sleep while I would be crying next to him. He was an expert at compartmentalizing and acting wonderful with everyone around him. His facial expressions would actually change when he was tuning me out. A very social person, he constantly has to surround himself with people (lives with two roommates, one female Ive seen them flirting). He would fawn over everyone else in a group (especially women) while COMPLETELY SHUTTING ME OUT. This wasnt even when he was mad at me, just a normal behaviour. Wouldnt stand beside me for pictures, sit beside me at dinner, etc. when there was a group of people. He told me once that one of his long time girlfriends had an affair with another man, even going so far as to stay overnight at his house, because X didnÃt pay attention to her (he IGNORED her). The affair didnt faze him and within a week she had moved out. A few months later they were engaged and eventually married. This seems to be the way he gets rid of women, by making it so unbearable for them to stay in the relationship. He once bragged to me that he has never asked a woman to leave, its always the other way around. Ie: THEIR CHOICE. No accountability, whatsoever. In fact, the few times I asked him to elaborate as to why his past relationships failed he always said itÃs because the girlfriend and him were ultimately too dissimilar or that the woman had habits or traits that he came to despise. -Thought process: He didnt believe in marriage, yet mentioned more than a few times how great it would be to have kids together (he has one from a previous relationship), the old "I can see our future children in your eyes" bit. He has mentioned kids WITH EVERY RELATIONSHIP. He sees nothing wrong with being a single mother if the "relationship didn't work out". He is well-read, knowledgeable, extremely cerebral, doesnt like rules and thinks everyone but him is living a mediocre and superficial life. He is a non-conformist who changes careers and friends quite frequently. Insisted on bringing friends on our trips, inviting other (single) women with us, etc, resisting any opportunity to be alone and have a conversation with me. Has seen two therapists during the time weÃve been together. The first one, MY hypnotherapist, said she didnt think he had the capacity to be hypnotized and she confided to me some time later that she has never met anyone ìso inside his headî. The second one, a psychologist did boundary exercises with him and then after three sessions declared that she didnÃt think there was anything else she could do for him and suggested they terminate their relationship. -Sex: Was frequent in the beginning but ended up becoming selfish, rushed and infrequent. I would try and initiate and he would feign sleep or find things to keep him busy elsewhere. He would tease me and was constantly fixated on my breasts. Thought sex with women was more for their benefit than for his (ie: procreation). Withholding and dissatisfactory sex dominated the last few months of our 15-month relationship. He said once that he hoped I was a strong woman because was afraid that he would build me up into a better person and help me reach my full potential, only to eventually tire [of the project] and then toss me aside. He said he was probably not a very good bet and wasnt sure if he could maintain a long-term relationship with anyone. When we broke up we were lying in bed (NOT after sex) and I asked him what was thinking. We hadnt had a fight or anything. Actually we had been getting along quite well because I hadnt brought anything up. He snapped at me and said something like I was thinking about painting my room, what are you thinking? I answered calmly that I was thinking about why we never talk anymore and he immediately launched into a criticism of my weight and said that I dont tolerate his relationships with his exes. He said, Just because we are talking now, it doesnÃt change anything. I asked him if he wanted to sleep with other women and he replied, its not about that. I asked him if he was losing interest in me and he responded, apparently so. I asked him if he wanted to be on his own and he responded, I dont know what I want. I asked him if he wanted to end the relationship and he gave me a blank stare. I replied, Ill take that as a yes and walked out. 1) Do cerebral N's actually LIKE sex or is it more of a tool for them--why would they have multiple sexual relationships if they weren't interested in it? |
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| | From: samvak | Sent: 30/08/2004 6:19 p.m. |
Hi, Skittlesdoo, welcome aboard, What makes you think that he is a cerebral narcissist? Somatic narcissists are often as intelligent and intellectually accomplished as cerebral ones. But they deruve their narcissistic supply from "sexual conquests". Broadly speaking, there are two types of narcissists, loosely corresponding to the two categories mentioned in the question. Sex for the narcissist is an instrument designed to increase the number of Sources of Narcissistic Supply. If it happens to be the most efficient weapon in the narcissist's arsenal �?he makes profligate use of it. In other words: if the narcissist cannot obtain adoration, admiration, approval, applause, or any other kind of attention by other means (e.g., intellectually) �?he resorts to sex. He then become a satyr (or a nymphomaniac): indiscriminately engages in sex with multiple partners. His sex partners are considered by him to be objects - sources of Narcissistic Supply. It is through the processes of successful seduction and sexual conquest that the narcissist derives his badly needed narcissistic "fix". The narcissist is likely to perfect his techniques of courting and regard his sexual exploits as a form of art. He usually exposes this side of him �?in great detail �?to others, to an audience, expecting to win their approval and admiration. Because the Narcissistic Supply in his case is in the very act of conquest and (what he perceives to be) subordination �?the narcissist is forced to hop from one partner to another. Some narcissists prefer "complicated" situations. If men �?they prefer virgins, married women, frigid or lesbian women, etc. The more "difficult" the target �?the more rewarding the narcissistic outcome. Such a narcissist may be married, but he does not regard his extra-marital affairs as either immoral or a breach of any explicit or implicit contract between him and his spouse. He keeps explaining to anyone who cares to listen that his other sexual partners are nothing to him, meaningless, that he is merely taking advantage of them and that they do not constitute a threat and should not be taken seriously by his spouse. In his mind a clear separation exists between the honest "woman of his life" (really, a saint) and the whores that he is having sex with. With the exception of the meaningful women in his life, he tends to view all females in a bad light. His behaviour, thus, achieves a dual purpose: securing Narcissistic Supply, on the one hand �?and re-enacting old, unresolved conflicts and traumas (abandonment by Primary Objects and the Oedipal conflict, for instance). When inevitably abandoned by his spouse �?the narcissist is veritably shocked and hurt. This is the sort of crisis, which might drive him to psychotherapy. Still, deep inside, he feels compelled to continue to pursue precisely the same path. His abandonment is cathartic, purifying. Following a period of deep depression and suicidal ideation �?the narcissist is likely to feel cleansed, invigorated, unshackled, ready for the next round of hunting. But there is another type of narcissist. He also has bouts of sexual hyperactivity in which he trades sexual partners and tends to regard them as objects. However, with him, this is a secondary behaviour. It appears mainly after major narcissistic traumas and crises. A painful divorce, a devastating personal financial upheaval �?and this type of narcissist adopts the view that the "old" (intellectual) solutions do not work anymore. He frantically gropes and searches for new ways to attract attention, to restore his False Ego (=his grandiosity) and to secure a subsistence level of Narcissistic Supply. Sex is handy and is a great source of the right kind of supply: it is immediate, sexual partners are interchangeable, the solution is comprehensive (it encompasses all the aspects of the narcissist's being), natural, highly charged, adventurous, and pleasurable. Thus, following a life crisis, the cerebral narcissist is likely to be deeply involved in sexual activities �?very frequently and almost to the exclusion of all other matters. However, as the memories of the crisis fade, as the narcissistic wounds heal, as the Narcissistic Cycle re-commences and the balance is restored �?this second type of narcissist reveals his true colours. He abruptly loses interest in sex and in all his sexual partners. The frequency of his sexual activities deteriorates from a few times a day �?to a few times a year. He reverts to intellectual pursuits, sports, politics, voluntary activities �?anything but sex. This kind of narcissist is afraid of encounters with the opposite sex and is even more afraid of emotional involvement or commitment that he fancies himself prone to develop following a sexual encounter. In general, such a narcissist withdraws not only sexually �?but also emotionally. If married �?he loses all overt interest in his spouse, sexual or otherwise. He confines himself to his world and makes sure that he is sufficiently busy to preclude any interaction with his nearest (and supposedly dearest). He becomes completely immersed in "big projects", lifelong plans, a vision, or a cause �?all very rewarding narcissistically and all very demanding and time consuming. In such circumstances, sex inevitably becomes an obligation, a necessity, or a maintenance chore reluctantly undertaken to preserve his sources of supply (his family or household). The cerebral narcissist does not enjoy sex and by far prefers masturbation or "objective", emotionless sex, like going to prostitutes. Actually, he uses his mate or spouse as an "alibi", a shield against the attentions of other women, an insurance policy which preserves his virile image while making it socially and morally commendable for him to avoid any intimate or sexual contact with others. Ostentatiously ignoring women other than his wife (a form of aggression) he feels righteous in saying: "I am a faithful husband". At the same time, he feels hostility towards his spouse for ostensibly preventing him from freely expressing his sexuality, for isolating him from carnal pleasures. The narcissist's thwarted logic goes something like this: "I am married/attached to this woman. Therefore, I am not allowed to be in any form of contact with other women which might be interpreted as more than casual or businesslike. This is why I refrain from having anything to do with women �?because I am being faithful, as opposed to most other immoral men. However, I do not like this situation. I envy my free peers. They can have as much sex and romance as they want to �?while I am confined to this marriage, chained by my wife, my freedom curbed. I am angry at her and I will punish her by abstaining from having sex with her." Thus frustrated, the narcissist minimises all manner of intercourse with his close circle (spouse, children, parents, siblings, very intimate friends): sexual, verbal, or emotional. He limits himself to the rawest exchanges of information and isolates himself socially. His reclusion insures against a future hurt and avoids the intimacy that he so dreads. But, again, this way he also secures abandonment and the replay of old, unresolved, conflicts. Finally, he really is left alone by everyone, with no Secondary Sources of Supply. In his quest to find new sources, he again embarks on ego-mending bouts of sex, followed by the selection of a spouse or a mate (a Secondary Narcissistic Supply Source). Then the cycle re-commence: a sharp drop in sexual activity, emotional absence and cruel detachment leading to abandonment. The second type of narcissist is mostly sexually loyal to his spouse. He alternates between what appears to be hyper-sexuality and asexuality (really, forcefully repressed sexuality). In the second phase, he feels no sexual urges, bar the most basic. He is, therefore, not compelled to "cheat" upon his mate, betray her, or violate the marital vows. He is much more interested in preventing a worrisome dwindling of the kind of Narcissistic Supply that really matters. Sex, he says to himself, contentedly, is for those who can do no better. Somatic narcissists tend to verbal exhibitionism. They tend to brag in graphic details about their conquests and exploits. In extreme cases, they might introduce "live witnesses" and revert to total, classical exhibitionism. This sits well with their tendency to "objectify" their sexual partners, to engage in emotionally-neutral sex (group sex, for instance) and to indulge in autoerotic sex. The exhibitionist sees himself reflected in the eyes of the beholders. This constitutes the main sexual stimulus, this is what turns him on. This outside "look" is also what defines the narcissist. There is bound to be a connection. One (the exhibitionist) may be the culmination, the "pure case" of the other (the narcissist). Also Read My Woman and I Dr. Jackal and Mr. Hide The Narcissist and His Family Narcissists - Stable or Unstable? The Extramarital Narcissist The World of the Narcissist Homosexual Narcissists The Narcissistic Couple Physique Dysmorphique Narcissists and Women The Two Loves of the Narcissist Portrait of the Narcissist as a Young Man That Thing Between a Man and a Woman (continued) |
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| | From: samvak | Sent: 30/08/2004 6:20 p.m. |
Question: Is the narcissist characterised by simultaneous instabilities in all the important aspects of his life? Answer: The narcissist is a person who derives his Ego (and Ego functions) from other people's reactions to an image he invents and projects, called the False Self (Narcissistic Supply). Since no absolute control over the quantity and quality of Narcissistic Supply is possible �?it is bound to fluctuate �?the narcissist's view of himself and of his world is correspondingly and equally volatile. As "public opinion" ebbs and flows, so do the narcissist's self-confidence, self-esteem, sense of self-worth, or, in other words, so does his Self. Even the narcissist's convictions are subject to a never-ending process of vetting by others. The narcissistic personality is unstable in each and every one of its dimensions. It is the ultimate hybrid: rigidly amorphous, devoutly flexible, reliant for its sustenance on the opinion of people, whom the narcissist undervalues. A large part of this instability is subsumed under the Emotional Involvement Prevention Measures (EIPM) that I describe in the Essay. The narcissist's lability is so ubiquitous and so dominant �?that it might well be described as the ONLY stable feature of his personality. The narcissist does everything with one goal in mind: to attract Narcissistic Supply (attention). An example of this kind of behaviour: The narcissist may study a given subject diligently and in great depth in order to impress people later with this newly acquired erudition. But, having served its purpose, the narcissist lets the knowledge thus acquired evaporate. The narcissist maintains a sort of a "short-term" cell or warehouse where he stores whatever may come handy in the pursuit of Narcissistic Supply. But he is almost never really interested in what he does, studies, and experiences. From the outside, this might be perceived as instability. But think about it this way: the narcissist is constantly preparing for life's "exams" and feels that he is on a permanent trial. It is common to forget material studied only in preparation for an exam or for a court appearance. Short-term memory is perfectly normal. What sets the narcissist apart is the fact that, with him, this short-termism is a CONSTANT state of affairs and affects ALL his functions, not only those directly related to learning, or to emotions, or to experience, or to any single dimension of his life. Thus, the narcissist learns, remembers and forgets not in line with his real interests or hobbies, he loves and hates not the real subjects of his emotions but one dimensional, utilitarian, cartoons constructed by him. He judges, praises and condemns �?all from the narrowest possible point of view: the potential to extract Narcissistic Supply. He asks not what he can do with the world and in it �?but what can the world do for him as far as Narcissistic Supply goes. He falls in and out of love with people, workplaces, residences, vocations, hobbies, interests �?because they seem to be able to provide more or less Narcissistic Supply and for no other reason. Still, narcissists belong to two broad categories: the "compensatory stability" and the "enhancing instability" types. I. Compensatory Stability ("Classic") Narcissists These narcissists isolate one or more (but never most) aspects of their lives and "make these aspect/s stable". They do not really invest themselves in it. This stability is maintained by artificial means: money, celebrity, power, fear. A typical example is a narcissist who changes numerous workplaces, a few careers, a myriad of hobbies, value systems or faiths. At the same time, he maintains (preserves) a relationship with a single woman (and even remains faithful to her). She is his "island of stability". To fulfil this role, she just needs to be there for him physically. The narcissist is dependent upon "his" woman to maintain the stability lacking in all other areas of his life (to compensate for his instability). Yet, emotional closeness is bound to threaten the narcissist. Thus, he is likely to distance himself from her and to remain detached and indifferent to most of her needs. Despite this cruel emotional treatment, the narcissist considers her to be a point of exit, a form of sustenance, a fountain of empowerment. This mismatch between what he wishes to receive and what he is able to give, the narcissist prefers to deny, repress and bury deep in his unconscious. This is why he is always shocked and devastated to learn of his wife's estrangement, infidelity, or intentions to divorce him. Possessed of no emotional depth, being completely one track minded �?he cannot fathom the needs of others. In other words, he cannot empathise. Another �?even more common �?case is the "career narcissist". This narcissist marries, divorces and remarries with dizzying speed. Everything in his life is in constant flux: friends, emotions, judgements, values, beliefs, place of residence, affiliations, hobbies. Everything, that is, except his work. His career is the island of compensating stability in his otherwise mercurial existence. This kind of narcissist is dogged by unmitigated ambition and devotion. He perseveres in one workplace or one job, patiently, persistently and blindly climbing up the corporate ladder and treading the career path. In his pursuit of job fulfilment and achievements, the narcissist is ruthless and unscrupulous �?and, very often, successful. II. Enhancing Instability ("Borderline") Narcissist The other kind of narcissist enhances instability in one aspect or dimension of his life �?by introducing instability in others. Thus, if such a narcissist resigns (or, more likely, is made redundant) �?he also relocates to another city or country. If he divorces, he is also likely to resign his job. This added instability gives this type of narcissist the feeling that all the dimensions of his life are changing simultaneously, that he is being "unshackled", that a transformation is in progress. This, of course, is an illusion. Those who know the narcissist, no longer trust his frequent "conversions", "decisions", "crises", "transformations", "developments" and "periods". They see through his pretensions, protestations, and solemn declarations into the core of his instability. They know that he is not to be relied upon. They know that with narcissists, temporariness is the only permanence. Narcissists hate routine. When a narcissist finds himself doing the same things over and over again, he gets depressed. He oversleeps, over-eats, over-drinks and, in general, engages in addictive, impulsive, reckless, and compulsive behaviours. This is his way of re-introducing risk and excitement into what he (emotionally) perceives to be a barren life. The problem is that even the most exciting and varied existence becomes routine after a while. Living in the same country or apartment, meeting the same people, doing essentially the same things (even with changing content) �?all "qualify", in the eyes of the narcissist, as stultifying rote. The narcissist feels entitled. He feels it is his right �?due to his intellectual or physical superiority �?to lead a thrilling, rewarding, kaleidoscopic life. He wants to force life itself, or at least people around him, to yield to his wishes and needs, supreme among them the need for stimulating variety. This rejection of habit is part of a larger pattern of aggressive entitlement. The narcissist feels that the very existence of a sublime intellect (such as his) warrants concessions and allowances by others. Thus, standing in line is a waste of time better spent pursuing knowledge, inventing and creating. The narcissist should avail himself of the best medical treatment proffered by the most prominent medical authorities �?lest the precious asset that is the narcissist is lost to Mankind. He should not be bothered with trivial pursuits �?these lowly functions are best assigned to the less gifted. The devil is in paying precious attention to detail. Entitlement is sometimes justified in a Picasso or an Einstein. But few narcissists are either. Their achievements are grotesquely incommensurate with their overwhelming sense of entitlement and with their grandiose self-image. Of course, this overpowering sense of superiority often serves to mask and compensate for a cancerous complex of inferiority. Moreover, the narcissist infects others with his projected grandiosity and their feedback constitutes the edifice upon which he constructs his self-esteem. He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from the very people he holds in deep contempt. But there is a second angle to this abhorrence of the predictable. Narcissists employ a host of Emotional Involvement Prevention Measures (EIPM's). Despising routine and avoiding it is one of these mechanisms. Their function is to prevent the narcissist from getting emotionally involved and, subsequently, hurt. Their application results in an "approach-avoidance repetition complex". The narcissist, fearing and loathing intimacy, stability and security �?yet craving them �?approaches and then avoids significant others or important tasks in a rapid succession of apparently inconsistent and disconnected cycles. Also Read The Adrenaline Junkie The Narcissist's Time The Losses of the Narcissist The Discontinuous Narcissist The Entitlement of Routine The Habitual Identity The Compulsive Acts of a Narcissist Emotional Involvement Preventive Measures Narcissism, Substance Abuse, and Reckless Behaviors Misdiagnosing Narcissism - The Bipolar I Disorder Take care. Sam |
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2) Why would a narcissist seek a long-term relationship (ie: marriage, living together) if they have no capacity for or interest in monagamy? |
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| 0 recommendations | Message 5 of 12 in Discussion |
| | Sent: 31/08/2004 5:05 a.m. |
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| | From: samvak | Sent: 31/08/2004 1:17 p.m. |
Hi, Skittlesdoo, I believe that I have (inadvertently) already answered your second question (in my response to your first one). Read again the sections about foci of stability in the narcissist's life. Narcissists "love" their spouses or other significant others �?/SPAN> as long as they continue to reliably provide them with Narcissistic Supply (in one word, with attention). Inevitably, they regard others as mere "sources", objects, or functions. Lacking empathy and emotional maturity, the narcissist's love is pathological. But the precise locus of the pathology depends on the narcissist's stability or instability in different parts of his life. From "The Unstable Narcissist": (I have omitted below large sections. For a more elaborate treatment, please read the FAQ itself.) "Narcissists belong to two broad categories: the 'compensatory stability' and the 'enhancing instability' types. I. Compensatory Stability ('Classic') Narcissists These narcissists isolate one or more (but never most) aspects of their lives and 'make these aspect/s stable'. They do not really invest themselves in it. The stability is maintained by artificial means: money, celebrity, power, fear. A typical example is a narcissist who changes numerous workplaces, a few careers, a myriad of hobbies, value systems or faiths. At the same time, he maintains (preserves) a relationship with a single woman (and even remains faithful to her). She is his 'island of stability'. To fulfil this role, she just needs to be there physically. The narcissist is dependent upon 'his' woman to maintain the stability lacking in all other areas of his life (to compensate for his instability). Yet, emotional closeness is bound to threaten the narcissist. Thus, he is likely to distance himself from her and to remain detached and indifferent to most of her needs. Despite this cruel emotional treatment, the narcissist considers her to be a point of exit, a form of sustenance, a fountain of empowerment. This mismatch between what he wishes to receive and what he is able to give, the narcissist prefers to deny, repress and bury deep in his unconscious. This is why he is always shocked and devastated to learn of his wife's estrangement, infidelity, or divorce intentions. Possessed of no emotional depth, being completely one track minded �?he cannot fathom the needs of others. In other words, he cannot empathise. II. Enhancing Instability ('Borderline') Narcissist The other kind of narcissist enhances instability in one aspect or dimension of his life �?by introducing instability in others. Thus, if such a narcissist resigns (or, more likely, is made redundant) �?he also relocates to another city or country. If he divorces, he is also likely to resign his job. This added instability gives these narcissists the feeling that all the dimensions of their life are changing simultaneously, that they are being 'unshackled', that a transformation is in progress. This, of course, is an illusion. Those who know the narcissist, no longer trust his frequent 'conversions', 'decisions', 'crises', 'transformations', 'developments' and 'periods'. They see through his pretensions and declarations into the core of his instability. They know that he is not to be relied upon. They know that with narcissists, temporariness is the only permanence." We are, therefore, faced with two pathological forms of narcissistic "love". One type of narcissist "loves" others as one would attach to objects. He "loves" his spouse, for instance, simply because she exists and is available to provide him with Narcissistic Supply. He "loves" his children because they are part of his self-image as a successful husband and father. He "loves" his "friends" because �?/SPAN> and only as long as �?/SPAN> he can exploit them. Such a narcissist reacts with alarm and rage to any sign of independence and autonomy in his "charges". He tries to "freeze" everyone around him in their "allocated" positions and "assigned roles". His world is rigid and immovable, predictable and static, fully under his control. He punishes for "transgressions" against this ordained order. He thus stifles life as a dynamic process of compromising and growing �?/SPAN> rendering it instead a mere theatre, a tableau vivant. The other type of narcissist abhors monotony and constancy, equating them, in his mind, with death. He seeks upheaval, drama, and change �?/SPAN> but only when they conform to his plans, designs, and views of the world and of himself. Thus, he does not encourage growth in his nearest and dearest. By monopolizing their lives, he, like the other kind of narcissist, also reduces them to mere objects, props in the exciting drama of his life. This narcissist likewise rages at any sign of rebellion and disagreement. But, as opposed to the first sub-species, he seeks to animate others with his demented energy, grandiose plans, and megalomaniacal self-perception. An adrenaline junkie, his world is a whirlwind of comings and goings, reunions and separations, loves and hates, vocations adopted and discarded, schemes erected and dismantled, enemies turned friends and vice versa. His Universe is equally a theatre, but a more ferocious and chaotic one. Where is love in all this? Where is the commitment to the loved one's welfare, the discipline, the extension of oneself to incorporate the beloved, the mutual growth? Nowhere to be seen. The narcissist's "love" is hate and fear disguised �?/SPAN> fear of losing control and hatred of the very people his precariously balanced personality so depends on. The narcissist is egotistically committed only to his own well-being. To him, the objects of his "love" are interchangeable and inferior. He idealizes his nearest and dearest not because he is smitten by emotion �?/SPAN> but because he needs to captivate them and to convince himself that they are worthy Sources of Supply, despite their flaws and mediocrity. Once he deems them useless, he discards and devalues them similarly cold-bloodedly. A predator, always on the lookout, he debases the coin of "love" as he corrupts everything else in himself and around him. For a detailed examination of the relationship between narcissists and women read this nine part essay: And these: Take care. Sam |
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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR> 3) If you 'revealed' to a narcissist that you knew what he was, how he thought, etc. and told him that you suspected him of having NPD, how would he react? |
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| | From: samvak | Sent: 1/09/2004 2:49 p.m. |
Hi, Skittlesdo, It takes a major life crisis to force the narcissist to face up to his False Self: a painful breakdown of a close (symbiotic) relationship, a failure (in business, in a career, in the pursuit of a goal), the death of a parent, imprisonment, or a disease. Under normal circumstances, the narcissist denies that he is one (denial defence mechanism) and reacts with rage to any hint at being so diagnosed. The narcissist employs a host of intricate and interwoven defence mechanisms: intellectualisation, projection, projective identification, splitting, repression and denial (to name but a few) �?to sweep his narcissism under the psychological rug. When at risk of getting in touch with the reality of his mental disorder (and, as a result, with his emotions) �?the narcissist displays the whole spectrum of reactions usually associated with bereavement. At first he denies the facts, ignores them and distorts them to fit an alternative, coherent, "healthy", interpretation. Then, he becomes enraged. Wrathful, he attacks the people and social institutions that are the constant reminders of his true state. Then he sinks into depression and sadness. This phase is, really, a transformation of the aggression that he harbours into self-destructive impulses. Horrified by the potential consequences of being aggressive towards the sources of his Narcissistic Supply �?the narcissist resorts to self-attack, or self-annihilation. Yet, if the evidence is hard and still coming, the narcissist accepts himself as such and tries to make the best of it (in other words, to use his very narcissism to obtain Narcissistic Supply). The narcissist is a survivor and (while rigid in most parts of his personality) very inventive and flexible when it comes to securing Narcissistic Supply. The narcissist could, for instance, channel this force (of narcissism) positively �?or defiantly caricature the main aspects of narcissism so as to attract attention (albeit negative). But in most cases, the reflexes of avoidance prevail. The narcissist feels disenchanted with the person or persons who presented him with proof of his narcissism. He swiftly and cruelly parts ways with them, often without as much as an explanation (he does the same when he envies someone). He then proceeds to develop paranoid theories to explain why people, events, institutions and circumstances tend to confront him with his narcissism and he, bitterly and cynically, opposes or avoids them. As anti-narcissistic agents they constitute a threat to the very coherence and continuity of his personality and this probably serves to explain the ferocity, malice, obduracy, consistency and exaggeration which characterise his reactions. Faced with the potential collapse or dysfunctioning of his False Self �?the narcissist also faces the terrible consequences of being left alone and defenceless with his sadistic, maligned, self-destructive Superego. So, in summary, narcissists perceive their diagnosis - even rendered by a professional - as a slight. More here: Narcissists, Disagreement and Criticism Abusers regularly deny the abuse ever took place �?/SPAN> or rationalize their abusive behaviors. Denial is an integral part of the abuser's ability to "look at himself/herself in the mirror". There are many types of denial. When confronted by his victims, most abusers tend to shift blame or avoid the topic altogether. Total Denial 1. Outright Denial Typical retorts by the abuser: "It never happened, or it was not abuse, you are just imagining it, or you want to hurt my (the abuser's) feelings." 2. Alloplastic Defense Common sentences when challenged: "It was your fault, you, or your behavior, or the circumstances, provoked me into such behavior." 3. Altruistic Defense Usual convoluted explanations: "I did it for you, in your best interests." 4. Transformative Defense Recurring themes: "What I did to you was not abuse �?/SPAN> it was common and accepted behavior (at the time, or in the context of the prevailing culture or in accordance with social norms), it was not meant as abuse." Abusers frequently have narcissistic traits. As such, they are more concerned with appearance than with substance. Dependent for Narcissistic Supply on the community �?/SPAN> neighbors, colleagues, co-workers, bosses, friends, extended family �?/SPAN> they cultivate an unblemished reputation for honesty, industriousness, religiosity, reliability, and conformity. Forms of Denial in Public 1. Family Honor Stricture Characteristic admonitions: "We don't do dirty laundry publicly, the family's honor and repute must be preserved, what will the neighbors say?" 2. Family Functioning Stricture Dire and ominous scenarios: "If you snitch and inform the authorities, they will take me (the abusive parent) away and the whole family will disintegrate." Confronting the abuser with incontrovertible proof of his abusive behavior is one way of minimizing contact with him. Abusers �?/SPAN> like the narcissists that they often are �?/SPAN> cannot tolerate criticism or disagreement (more about it here). Other stratagems for making your abuser uncomfortable and, thus, giving him a recurrent incentive to withdraw �?/SPAN> here and here. About the grandiosity gap that underlies the narcissistic abuser's inability to face reality �?/SPAN> here and here. Take care. Sam |
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Does a narcissist experience any deep sadness over the death of a loved one? |
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| | From: samvak | Sent: 2/09/2004 1:12 p.m. |
Hi, Skittlesdoo, Narcissists don't have "loved ones". They are incapable of loving: Narcissists experience deep sadness over the loss of sources of narcissistic supply by whichever means (death or abandonment). Many scholars consider pathological narcissism to be a form of depressive illness. This is the position of the authoritative magazine "Psychology Today". The life of the typical narcissist is, indeed, punctuated with recurrent bouts of dysphoria (ubiquitous sadness and hopelessness), anhedonia (loss of the ability to feel pleasure), and clinical forms of depression (cyclothymic, dysthymic, or other). This picture is further obfuscated by the frequent presence of mood disorders, such as Bipolar I (co-morbidity). While the distinction between reactive (exogenous) and endogenous depression is obsolete, it is still useful in the context of narcissism. Narcissists react with depression not only to life crises but to fluctuations in Narcissistic Supply. The narcissist's personality is disorganised and precariously balanced. He regulates his sense of self-worth by consuming Narcissistic Supply from others. Any threat to the uninterrupted flow of said supply compromises his psychological integrity and his ability to function. It is perceived by the narcissist as life threatening. I. Loss Induced Dysphoria This is the narcissist's depressive reaction to the loss of one or more Sources of Narcissistic Supply �?or to the disintegration of a Pathological Narcissistic Space (PN Space, his stalking or hunting grounds, the social unit whose members lavish him with attention). II. Deficiency Induced Dysphoria Deep and acute depression which follows the aforementioned losses of Supply Sources or a PN Space. Having mourned these losses, the narcissist now grieves their inevitable outcome �?the absence or deficiency of Narcissistic Supply. Paradoxically, this dysphoria energises the narcissist and moves him to find new Sources of Supply to replenish his dilapidated stock (thus initiating a Narcissistic Cycle). III. Self-Worth Dysregulation Dysphoria The narcissist reacts with depression to criticism or disagreement, especially from a trusted and long-term Source of Narcissistic Supply. He fears the imminent loss of the source and the damage to his own, fragile, mental balance. The narcissist also resents his vulnerability and his extreme dependence on feedback from others. This type of depressive reaction is, therefore, a mutation of self-directed aggression. IV. Grandiosity Gap Dysphoria The narcissist's firmly, though counterfactually, perceives himself as omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, brilliant, accomplished, irresistible, immune, and invincible. Any data to the contrary is usually filtered, altered, or discarded altogether. Still, sometimes reality intrudes and creates a Grandiosity Gap. The narcissist is forced to face his mortality, limitations, ignorance, and relative inferiority. He sulks and sinks into an incapacitating but short-lived dysphoria. V. Self-Punishing Dysphoria Deep inside, the narcissist hates himself and doubts his own worth. He deplores his desperate addiction to Narcissistic Supply. He judges his actions and intentions harshly and sadistically. He may be unaware of these dynamics �?but they are at the heart of the narcissistic disorder and the reason the narcissist had to resort to narcissism as a defence mechanism in the first place. This inexhaustible well of ill will, self-chastisement, self-doubt, and self-directed aggression yields numerous self-defeating and self-destructive behaviours �?from reckless driving and substance abuse to suicidal ideation and constant depression. It is the narcissist's ability to confabulate that saves him from himself. His grandiose fantasies remove him from reality and prevent recurrent narcissistic injuries. Many narcissists end up delusional, schizoid, or paranoid. To avoid agonising and gnawing depression, they give up on life itself. Also Read The Delusional Way Out The Narcissistic Mini-Cycle Depression and the Narcissist The Concept of Narcissistic Supply The Narcissist's Confabulated Life Narcissists, Disagreements and Criticism Misdiagnosing Narcissism - The Bipolar I Disorder Narcissists, Narcissistic Supply and Sources of Supply The Narcissist's Self Defeating and Self Destructive Behaviors Question: How do narcissists react to the death of their parents? Answer: The narcissist has a complicated relationship with his parents (mainly with his mother, but, at times, also with his father). As Primary Objects, the narcissist's parents are often a source of frustration which leads to repressed or to self-directed aggression. They traumatise the narcissist during his infancy and childhood and thwart his healthy development well into his late adolescence. Often, they are narcissists themselves. Always, they behave capriciously, reward and punish the narcissist arbitrarily, abandon him or smother him with ill-regulated emotions. They instil in him a demanding, rigid, idealistic and sadistic Superego. Their voices continue to echo in him as an adult and to adjudicate, convict and punish him in a myriad ways. Thus, in most important respects, the narcissist's parents never die. They live on to torment him, to persecute and prosecute him. Their criticism, verbal and other forms of abuse and berating go on long after their physical demise. Their objectification of the narcissist lasts longer than any corporeal reality. Naturally, the narcissist has a mixed reaction to the passing away of his parents. It is composed of elation and a sense of overwhelming freedom mixed with grief. The narcissist is attached to his parents in much the same way as a hostage gets "attached" to his captors (the Stockholm syndrome), the tormented to his tormentors, the prisoner to his wardens. When this bondage ceases, the narcissist feels both lost and released, saddened and euphoric, empowered and drained. Additionally, the narcissist's parents are typically Secondary Narcissistic Supply Sources (SNSSs). They fulfil the roles of Accumulation of Narcissistic Supply (evidencing the narcissist's grand moments, they function as "live history") and Regulation of Narcissistic Supply (they provide the narcissist with Narcissistic Supply on a regular and reliable basis). Their death represents the loss of the narcissist's best and most veteran sources and, therefore, constitutes a devastating blow to the narcissist's mental composure. But beneath these evident losses lies a more disturbing reality. The narcissist has unfinished business with his parents. All of us do �?but his is more fundamental. Unresolved conflicts, traumas, fears and hurts seethe and the resulting pressure deforms the narcissist's personality. The death of his parents denies the narcissist the closure he so craves and needs. It seals his inability to come to terms with the very sources of his invalidity, with the very poisonous roots of his disorder. These are grave and disconcerting news, indeed. Moreover, the death of his parents virtually secures a continuation of the acrimonious debate between the narcissist's Superego and the other structures of his personality. Unable to contrast the ideal parents in his mind with the real (less than ideal) ones, unable to communicate with them, unable to defend himself, to accuse, even to pity them �?the narcissist finds himself trapped in a time capsule, forever reenacting his childhood and its injustice and abandonment. The narcissist needs his parents alive mostly in order to get back at them, to accuse and punish them for what they have done to him. This attempt at reciprocity ("settling the scores") represents to him justice and order, it introduces sense and logic into an otherwise totally chaotic mental landscape. It is a triumph of right over wrong, weak over strong, law and order over chaos and capriciousness. The demise of his parents is perceived by him to be a cosmic joke at his expense. He feels "stuck" for the rest of his life with the consequences of events and behaviour not of his own doing or fault. The villains evade responsibility by leaving the stage, ignoring the script and the director's (the narcissist's) orders. The narcissist goes through a final big cycle of helpless rage when his parents die. He then feels, once again, belittled, ashamed and guilty, worthy of condemnation and punishment (for being angry at his parents as well as elated at their death). It is when his parents pass away that the narcissist becomes a child again. And, like the first time round, it is not a pleasant or savoury experience. Take care. Sam |
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Do most narcissists think their duplicity, their "False Self" is not obvious to others, especially those close to them? |
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| | From: samvak | Sent: 3/09/2004 3:02 p.m. |
Hi, Skittlesdoo, Yes. The narcissists is convinced that he is not transparent, that no one can see through him. And for good reason: usually he succeeds to deceive everyone most of the time. Narcissists are an elusive breed, hard to spot, harder to pinpoint, impossible to capture. Even an experienced mental health diagnostician with unmitigated access to the record and to the person examined would find it fiendishly difficult to determine with any degree of certainty whether someone suffers from an impairment, i.e., a mental health disorder �?or merely possesses narcissistic traits, a narcissistic personality structure ("character"), or a narcissistic "overlay" superimposed on another mental health problem. Moreover, it is important to distinguish between the traits and behaviour patterns that are independent of the patient's cultural-social context (i.e., inherent, or idiosyncratic) - and reactive patterns, or conformity to cultural and social mores and edicts. Reactions to severe life crises are often characterized by transient pathological narcissism, for instance (Ronningstam and Gunderson, 1996). But such reactions do not a narcissist make. When a person lives in a society and culture that has often been described as narcissistic by the leading lights of scholarly research (e.g., Theodore Millon) and social thinking (e.g., Christopher Lasch) - how much of his behaviour can be attributed to his milieu �?and which of his traits are really his? Moreover, there is a qualitative difference between having narcissistic traits, a narcissistic personality, or the Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The latter is rigorously defined in the DSM IV-TR and includes strict criteria and differential diagnoses (for more, see here: http://samvak.tripod.com/npdglance.html). Narcissism is regarded by many scholars to be an adaptative strategy ("healthy narcissism"). It is considered pathological in the clinical sense only when it becomes a rigid personality structure replete with a series of primitive defence mechanisms (such as splitting, projection, Projective Identification, intellectualization) �?and when it leads to dysfunctions in one or more areas of life. Pathological narcissism is the art of deception. The narcissist projects a False Self and manages all his social interactions through this concocted fictional construct. People often find themselves involved with a narcissist (emotionally, in business, or otherwise) before they have a chance to discover his true nature. When the narcissist reveals his true colors, it is usually far too late. His victims are unable to separate from him. They are frustrated by this acquired helplessness and angry that they failed to see through the narcissist earlier on. We are surrounded by malignant narcissists. How come this disorder has hitherto been largely ignored? How come there is such a dearth of research and literature regarding this crucial family of pathologies? Even mental health practitioners are woefully unaware of it and unprepared to assist its victims. The sad answer is that narcissism meshes well with our culture [see: http://samvak.tripod.com/lasch.html]. It is kind of a "background cosmic radiation", permeating every social and cultural interaction. It is hard to distinguish pathological narcissists from self-assertive, self-confident, self-promoting, eccentric, or highly individualistic persons. Hard sell, greed, envy, self-centredness, exploitativeness, diminished empathy - are all socially condoned features of Western civilization. Our society is atomized, the outcome of individualism gone awry. It encourages narcissistic leadership and role models: http://samvak.tripod.com/15.html Its sub-structures - institutionalized religion, political parties, civic organizations, the media, corporations - are all suffused with narcissism and pervaded by its pernicious outcomes: http://samvak.tripod.com/14.html The very ethos of materialism and capitalism upholds certain narcissistic traits, such as reduced empathy, exploitation, a sense of entitlement, or grandiose fantasies ("vision"). More about this here: http://samvak.tripod.com/journal37.html Narcissists are aided, abetted and facilitated by four types of people and institutions: the adulators, the blissfully ignorant, the self-deceiving and those deceived by the narcissist. The adulators are fully aware of the nefarious and damaging aspects of the narcissist's behaviour but believe that they are more than balanced by the benefits - to themselves, to their collective, or to society at large. They engage in an explicit trade-off between some of their principles and values - and their personal profit, or the greater good. They seek to help the narcissist, promote his agenda, shield him from harm, connect him with like-minded people, do his chores for him and, in general, create the conditions and the environment for his success. This kind of alliance is especially prevalent in political parties, the government, multinational, religious organizations and other hierarchical collectives. The blissfully ignorant are simply unaware of the "bad sides" of the narcissist- and make sure they remain so. They look the other way, or pretend that the narcissist's behavior is normative, or turn a blind eye to his egregious misbehaviour. They are classic deniers of reality. Some of them maintain a generally rosy outlook premised on the inbred benevolence of Mankind. Others simply cannot tolerate dissonance and discord. They prefer to live in a fantastic world where everything is harmonious and smooth and evil is banished. They react with rage to any information to the contrary and block it out instantly. This type of denial is well evidenced in dysfunctional families. The self-deceivers are fully aware of the narcissist's transgressions and malice, his indifference, exploitativeness, lack of empathy, and rampant grandiosity - but they prefer to displace the causes, or the effects of such misconduct. They attribute it to externalities ("a rough patch"), or judge it to be temporary. They even go as far as accusing the victim for the narcissist's lapses, or for defending themselves ("She provoked him"). In a feat of cognitive dissonance, they deny any connection between the acts of the narcissist and their consequences ("His wife abandoned him because she was promiscuous, not because of anything he did to her"). They are swayed by the narcissist's undeniable charm, intelligence, or attractiveness. But the narcissist needs not invest resources in converting them to his cause - he does not deceive them. They are self-propelled into the abyss that is narcissism. The inverted narcissists, for instance, is a self-deceiver. The deceived are people - or institutions, or collectives - deliberately taken for a premeditated ride by the narcissist. He feeds them false information, manipulates their judgement, proffers plausible scenarios to account for his indiscretions, soils the opposition, charms them, appeals to their reason, or to their emotions, and promises the Moon. Again, the narcissist's incontrovertible powers of persuasion and his impressive personality play a part in this predatory ritual. The deceived are especially hard to deprogram. They are often themselves encumbered with narcissistic traits and find it impossible to admit a mistake, or to atone. They are likely to stay on with the narcissist to his - and their - bitter end. Regrettably, the narcissist rarely pays the price for his offenses. His victims pick up the tab. But even here the malignant optimism of the abused never ceases to amaze (read this: http://samvak.tripod.com/journal27.html). More here: The Tocsins of Abuse - How to Spot an Abuser on Your First Date The Abuser's Body Language How to Recognize a Narcissist I hope you found our exchange of some use. Thank you nad take cre there. Sam |
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