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| | From:  Trudy185 (Original Message) | Sent: 29/10/2008 2:54 a.m. |
I'm so disoriented. The ground is shifting.
I had to interact and work w. N today.
I don't know who he is.
He seemed very scared of me at first. Frightened little boy! As if I'd be mad!
He asked me lots of questions about a client -- nothing improper,but why this interest in a random client (an elderly and ill man) as if he really wanted to know who he is? To find out what I'd been working on, and with whom? (It's not privileged info, he can find it out).
I thought Ns didn't ask questions, but he wanted to know, who was this client? (he CAN'T be jealous of an elderly man!") I did do some nice things for this client. Would an N have assumed I was manipulating the situation?
HE SPECIFICALLY ASKED: "Who is he? How old is he?"
AND he was sweet again. Did some nice things for me today. GF not there today.
I CAN'T PUT IT TOGETHER. I HAVE NO IDEA WHO HE IS.
And I feel exhausted. I felt zero attraction, that is gone. I am not aware of an energy suck, but there must have been one. I feel psychically drained.
It's like he is so FRAGMENTED. No consistent person there. Does he even remember his acting out? The D and D? The running from me, the little enactments w. other people, the things he wanted me to see, the adolescent attention-getting gimmicks?
DO THEY REMEMBER THEIR EARLER BEHAVIOR?
(Sorry, I'm not shouting. I'm speaking with some anguish of needing to understand).
Do you ever feel disoriented like this? I'm exhausted and need sleep, but I'm deeply disturbed. I won't have to work w. him on this project anymore, this one is over. And there is nothing he can use or take or manipulate w. this client. I will detach again.
Any similar experiences? I really needed to reach out w. this.
Love you all,
Trudy |
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Do they remember how they acted? Good one affectionatedragon, mine had selective memory big time. If he wasn't denying something outright he was claiming he didn't remember it happening (although coincidentally it was always some bad behaviour on his part that he conveniently could 'not remember'!) purple x |
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| | (1 recommendation so far) | Message 12 of 25 in Discussion |
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Yes, they are fragmented and not fully developed in the interpersonal aspects of their brain.
Their feelings, if any, are fleeting and go with the wind.
If they do a bad thing, they feel completely justified at the moment. And then the moment passes, they will have zero feeling of regret if they have caused hurt or pain. It means nothing to them.
The problem is you, you who keep bringing it up, why can't you just get over with and stop haranguing me? You psycho bitch, now you know why I had to dump you! That other one over there, she is better, she doesn't bug me about what I do and she accepts me as I am (for the moment, at least) plus she has money, pays for everything,
and looks the other way when I cheat.
And so on. Relationships don't work with them. Normals don't mix with them, period. Forget it, stop analyzing him, there are parts of his brain missing and he is literally emotionally retarded. |
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Oh yes GN you just reminded me, if he did actually admit to something he had done that had upset me, it was always my fault for not being able to 'get over the past'... but then of course when he was bearing one of his grudges - he would suddenly bring up something that had happened weeks ago, how he didn't like something that I had said or done or whatever - we would have to go over and over it. When I would ask him why he didn't mention it at the time so we could have resolved it then and there he would say 'well I didn't want to spoil the moment, like you always do'...so why wait 2 weeks? (or whatever). Madness, total and utter crazy madness...... purple x |
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| | (1 recommendation so far) | Message 14 of 25 in Discussion |
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Trudy, This is helpful for me and is pretty much what I've broken down narcissism to mean in nut (pardon the pun) and bolt terms. This is a personality disorder. What exactly does that mean? It means they have a nonordered personality. What is the definition of disordered? broken: thrown into a state of disarray or confusion; "a confused mass of papers on the desk"; confused: lacking orderly continuity; "a confused set of instructions"; "disconnected fragments of a story"; "scattered thoughts" not arranged in order Chaotic; without clear order; in a state of disorder So, now, apply this definition to his personality. Apply this to everything he says, to every action, to everything he does that you are confused by. Why do you get confused then? Because it is the result of actions/words on his part that make no sense while your brain tries to process, tries to find a logical, organized reason/explanation for actions that have none. Also, a defining feature of narcissists is an inability to feel empathy for another. An inability means they are not able, not that they choose not to. Asking a narcissist to feel empathy is as impossible for them to do as it is for you to NOT feel empathy. So, what is empathy? Empathy is identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings and motives. Now, put the two things together: a disordered mind with an inability to understand or relate to how anyone feels, the situation they are in or what motivates people. An inability to understand how they affect anyone, only an ability to feel affected by the behaviors of others. What you have then, is a receipe - all of the ingredients for - interaction that causes confusion, rejection and hurt without you or anyone being able to affect any change to this type of person. They cannot see, they cannot understand, they will not change. Interaction with them is flat out confusing at all times for anyone who has a normal, logical, rational brain. Which is why people will never win, never get over on them, never one up them or be able to get them to 'love' them. They simply don't get it. So, this is a long way to make my point that what you feel by interacting with a narcissist is pretty normal. Understanding WHY you feel the way you do and that it has to do with him, not you, is an important step to being able to detach from what he does, to see what is really going on with clarity. |
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Good post, Trinity. My XNBF identifies with and has empathy only for other addicts and alcoholics. He lives and breaths addiction. TV shows, books, all conversation -- addiction, addiction, addiction. He has a bleeding heart for addicts (unless it's a good beach day, of course). I suppose it's because he can no longer take the drugs that he enjoys reliving his "glory days." Over and above drug addicts: If this salt of the earth Christian man  should see you standing in the middle of the street, on fire -- unless he's got an extra few minutes -- and you've got a good rack or a nice a$$ -- you're going to burn! Gloria P.S. And I'll bet those parking garage receipts from November 2005 are still in his sock drawer. The unpaid bills and late notices are somewhere -- turned face-down, so he won't need to acknowledge them. DISordered, DISorderly, DISorganized, and my life's biggest DISappointment. |
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| | | From: Trudy185 | Sent: 29/10/2008 6:00 p.m. |
You all are wonderful. I love you guys!!!
(Please note I am not yelling in my caps. I am struggling so much sometimes I have to say things for emphasis to help me hear, to make it go into my head).
I haven't made the final leap, and that is what I need to do now.
I need to really SEE HIM as truly and fully MENTALLY ILL.
I had not gotten my head around it.
He LOOKS so normal. He can SEEM so put together, so kind, so thoughtful, so considerate. CONSIDERATE!!
So I keep THINKING there is a real someone in there.
It's dawning. I'm getting it. ALL of that is an ILLUSION. Or else just a part, a fragment.
I had not made this leap. The term emotionally retarded or personality retarded -- probably not very politically correct, but it makes a difference.
His mode is all in silence and acting out. I get very few words to work with. So it has taken me so much longer. I would not have even known we were in a romantic r'ship except for the time spent, a few questions he asked, some behavior, and those long, lingering, soulful adoring love-filled gazes.
WOW, seriously messed up!!!
I'm getting it. I will keep detaching at work as much as I can, and when I have to work w. him, I'll look at him thru those lenses of personality disordered, mentally ill, emotionally retarded etc etc.
I don't know how to thank you. No one else is here to explain this to me. I see my counselor every 3 weeks or so (really expensive!) ((((Thank you)))))
It's really getting through to me now. I'm getting it.
I love you all,
Trudy |
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| | (1 recommendation so far) | Message 17 of 25 in Discussion |
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Just to throw my 2 cents in,
Yes, Trudy, they are seriously messed up.
They may remember their actions in the past, but they choose to either ignore it or justify it.
The reason why he wants to talk to you is because he thinks he can still get supply from you. The D&D really has nothing to do with that. How many of us were D&D'd over and over again? It's not black and white. While it feels like they think you are trash, that's not really it. You scared them or they scared you or they thought they could get better supply (and by "better," I just mean supply that more fully fits with their idea of who they are) - it doesn't mean that you don't still have value AS SUPPLY. Get it? That's all anyone is to them and they will only work as hard as they have to to get it.
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| | | From: Trudy185 | Sent: 29/10/2008 10:00 p.m. |
Thank you, best griever, that helps. I find I do need SOME way to see it. I am starting to get it (as much as any of us can really get it. It is so seriously sick).
Today I'm getting ignored, and yet the steam and anger and projections is just pouring out of him, almost like a black cloud he walks around in. I feel it accosting me, it makes me feel dirty (sooty, grimy) and very, very tired today. The fatigue is overwhelming. I am having a hard time staying awake (!!!)
Don't have to deal w him much now but his aura is pervasive and invasive and very bad.
The mental illness/ vampire/ parasite / virus images are helpful.
Really fighting overwhelming sleepiness today. Is that because he got supply from me yesterday? Or that I am working hard to process? Or his sucking presence?
(((Thank you)))
Love,
Trudy |
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Trudy,
You are going through intense emotional and psychological stress right now - I am not surprised in the least that you are tired. You are having to deal with your XN every day and he is basically creating an atmosphere of fear, worry, and intimidation.
I think the fact that you have taken steps to remove yourself from his immediate presence is good - is there anything else you can do? A different room, a different floor?
Otherwise, maybe you can imagine yourself in a sort of bubble of your own happiness and self-worth. Whatever is going on with the N does not affect you, it just bounces off the bubble. I don't think I can even imagine how difficult this must be for you, but try to disassociate yourself from him and his actions. I know you are trying to understand him and make sense of it and process all of it - but it's draining you and slowly eating away at not only your self-esteem but your sanity.
This will end eventually - I imagine right now it's like a black hole that you just can't escape. Just remember that HE is the crazy one. Don't let his craziness and negative energy affect you - focus on healthy you in your bubble and ignore him to the best of your ability!
I'm sending some good energy your way! |
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To an N, the value of supply is measured by how much a$$ kissing the supplier is willing to do.
I, personally, don't kiss a$$. |
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I remember by xN telling me he had herpes. It was 18 months after I'd met him and he'd been gambling with my health all that time. I was upset and asked him why he'd never told me before and he said 'because I thought you would keep bringing it up and using it against me'. A perfect insight into their minds. I once didn't finish painting the front door (my worst crime!) and he brought it up in EVERY SINGLE argument we had afterwards. They are well aware of how they behave, and they are well aware of the way in which they control people. |
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| | | From: Trudy185 | Sent: 30/10/2008 1:22 a.m. |
Thanks so much, this help really matters.
Bestgriever, I can really use that bubble. Thank you. One thing I keep doing is staying up late reading books on NPD. I have to get more sleep.
It's just another sign of how they can take over your life! It's my choice to do that, but I find it helps a lot!
Today he didn't even try to fake being nice. There was an arrogant sneer on his face. I ignored it when it was directed to me.
The Jekyll Hyde difference is just unbelievable. I keep thinking there could be a part of him that is normal, that you can reach. There isn't.
He had a chance to block something I was doing at work today, and he did. It only matters if I care about a particular aspect of a project, which isn't actually mine. No one gets hurt if I withdraw, it isn't my area, I was just offering particular expertise, which I've done. I was able to contribute thru another person in the end, but for my own safety I have to not care about anything he's involved in.
It was PAYBACK for the client I helped (which got some appreciative attention from the higher ups, altho that is not why I did it).
He was so smug, so arrogant, the sneer is unbelievable.
Just have to stay out of his way. I've learned. There is absolutely nothing redeeming in this guy. Anything that appears to be is simply an act for supply.
WHY did it take me so long to get his measure? Because at first the acting out was immature. Childish. Only gradually after that did he reveal the true ugliness.
I once saw a Twilight zone episode where a hideous reptile crawled out of a woman's mouth. I'll never forget it. It feels like this ugly creature is inside my ex BF. Unbelievable ugliness.
Bestgriever, I really need that bubble! Self care and self protection are the name of the game. Yes, I can work on timing of things so that I am less exposed to him. I can't move to another floor though. That would be wonderful.... don't get me started on how I wish I had never crossed his path....
mitchie, thanks for your message. I am so sorry you were exposed to that risk. (Isn't "exposed" the appropriate word tonight!)
Are they always completely aware? They are never just acting out of reflex? I thought the childish stuff was reflex, but, no, it could have all been planned. Sickening.
If he keeps this up, that is, if I stay in his sights, I'm in for a bad ride.
There is absolutely nothing that he is doing that crosses any line. It's subtle, off the radar, stealth, passive aggressive, and he can look totally innocent. Not only that but most if not all people around him think he's wonderful.
He set it up beautifully so I would look like the bitter and wounded ex GF.
So far he has not done anything to sabotage my real work. It's just me performing at less than my best.
Thank you all so much. I think I'm headed for a hot bath and bed!
I wish it hadn't taken me this long to learn about him. Did I tell you that my counselor, said to me: "Character pathology only reveals itself in the context of relationship, usually a close relationship."
I intend to be strong and to come through!
Love you all,
Trudy
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Trudy--
I've been here all along with you...ready and trying to soak this all up to. Sometimes i soak up better if i don't write.....sorry. I want you to know I am here.
I'm sorry you have to see him every day.
I too am having a hard time grasping the fact that mine was so Jeckyll/Hyde. He really could be a good guy. But.......it was all a game, manipulation.....and i just need to remind myself of the final D&D to see that. It was the cruelest thing ever and i still have shock that he was capable of that.
I finally got some sleeping pills prescribed. 4 months of 3 hours a night is wearing on me......i need to catch up on it.
i'm here hon!! You're doing great!!! We learn slowly and we get there!! This stuff is so hard to grasp....but we are getting it!! |
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| | | From: Trudy185 | Sent: 30/10/2008 1:46 a.m. |
notyouroption,
Thank you so much! I feel so much support on this board, and I am needing it and leaning on it! It helps me so much.
I'm so sorry you had this come at you, too. ((((huggs)))) It IS shocking.
Yes, we will get there! One day I'm going to write on this board that I talked to him and it didn't phase me at all. I can't wait till that day!
Thank you for the good reflection back :)
I love you all,
Trudy |
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Trinity, You just wrote an account of my last 20 years. Thank you for being so articulate. BC |
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