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General : DR. VAKNIN'S WEEKLY CASE STUDY: CHICKEN NUGGET
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Reply
 Message 1 of 25 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nickname·TammyJo·  (Original Message)Sent: 24/11/2003 2:25 a.m.
Congratulations to Chicken Nugget. She is our first case study for Dr. Vaknin to work with!
 
CN,
This is where you are going to make your first post to Dr. Vaknin. He'll need a brief history of your life with your abuser. If you have any questions be sure to mark them as well.
 
Good luck!
 
The Managers of NPD Forum


First  Previous  11-25 of 25  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 11 of 25 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamefemfreeSent: 25/11/2003 8:22 p.m.
HI Chicken Nugget:
I sent you an email with some information you had requested,
but need a reply from you before I can transmit.
 
Looking forward to your email!
 
Take Care
femfree
 

Reply
 Message 12 of 25 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nickname·TammyJo·Sent: 25/11/2003 8:47 p.m.
If I may interject here for just a moment, CN, you say:
I have brought this to his attention and SAYS he refuses to believe he is a narcissist and says in return that I am the one with mental problems (which I KNOW is not the case). 
 
If you check with most of us who have tried to tell our N's or P's that they are NPD or APD they will tell you it is not them and that YOU have the problem. I told mine and he said the same thing. And most here I have read have all said the same thing.
 
No, it is not you, it is him. They just think that they are OK and the rest of the world is screwed up!
 

Reply
 Message 13 of 25 in Discussion 
From: ChickenNuggetSent: 25/11/2003 10:22 p.m.
TM -
 
Yes, thank you.  That is what I'm trying to get at.... and here is my explanation of what I meant by that comment/question -

<o:p></o:p> 

I meant no disrespect by that question - I hope it didn't come across that way...if so I will be glad to rephrase that.  It is difficult to get across what you want to say/ask on the internet.  I am simply proposing that if he could diagnose himself as a narcissist, wouldn't all narcissists be able to do the same (i.e. read these characteristics as I have and be able to comprehend that it applies to them)?  I suppose he never did say that he diagnosed himself, but I'm assuming since someone DID diagnose him that he, himself, knows/understands why he is a narcissist - so ... why when I confronted my 'husband' about the fact that this may be his problem, would he deny totally and completely that this could be the case and then project it onto me saying I'M the one with the disorder?  Sorry if that caused any confusion!<o:p></o:p>

Chicken Nugget
 
 

Reply
 Message 14 of 25 in Discussion 
From: ChickenNuggetSent: 25/11/2003 10:24 p.m.
(more on the above explanation)...
 
That is to say...if Dr. Vak can do it (understand he is a narcissist), why can't everyone?
 
CN

Reply
 Message 15 of 25 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nickname·TammyJo·Sent: 25/11/2003 11:04 p.m.
UGH ....... you are over top of me on that one CN.
 
That would be a question to ask Dr. V.... If they really know that they have the disorder, or understand about it.
 
Hugs,
Tammy

Reply
 Message 16 of 25 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknamemerci_marieSent: 25/11/2003 11:24 p.m.

Maybe I'm out of line to comment & correct me if I'm wrong,,,, but isnt it similar to other disorders/disease like Alcoholism?

No one can change them except the N. they have to admit they have the disorder and Want to change? If they dont want to,, there's not a d*m thing we can do about it, except take care of our selves Only?


Reply
 Message 17 of 25 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamesamvakSent: 26/11/2003 2:51 p.m.
Hi, Chicken Nugget, everyone,
 
I am not self-diagnosed. I don't have the qualifications to diagnose myself even if I wanted to. I was diagnosed twice. Once, in 1987, after I broke up with my fiancee, and then in 1996, in jail.

It takes a major life crisis to force the narcissist to face up to his False Self: a painful breakdown of a close (symbiotic) relationship, a failure (in business, in a career, in the pursuit of a goal), the death of a parent, imprisonment, or a disease.

Under normal circumstances, the narcissist denies that he is one (denial defence mechanism) and reacts with rage to any hint at being so diagnosed. The narcissist employs a host of intricate and interwoven defence mechanisms: rationalisation, intellectualisation, projection, projective identification, splitting, suppression and denial (to name but a few) �?to sweep his narcissism under the psychological carpet.

When at risk of getting in touch with the reality of being mentally disturbed (and, as a result, with his emotions) �?the narcissist displays the whole spectrum of emotional reactions usually associated with bereavement. At first he denies the facts, ignores them and distorts them to fit an alternative, coherent, non-narcissistic, interpretation.

Then, he becomes enraged. Wrathful, he attacks the people and social institutions that are the constant reminders of his true state. Than he sinks into depression and sadness. This phase is, really, a transformation of the aggression that he harbours into self-destructive impulses. Horrified by the potential consequences of being aggressive towards the very sources of his Narcissistic Supply �?the narcissist resorts to self-attack, or self-annihilation. Yet, if the evidence is hard and still coming, the narcissist accepts himself as such and tries to make the best of it (in other words, to use his very narcissism to obtain Narcissistic Supply). The narcissist is a survivor and (while rigid in most parts of his personality) �?very inventive and flexible when it comes to securing Narcissistic Supply. The narcissist could, for instance, channel this force (of narcissism) positively �?or defiantly caricature the main aspects of narcissism so as to attract attention (albeit negative).

But in most cases, the reflexes of avoidance prevail. The narcissist feels disenchanted with the person or persons who presented him with proof of his narcissism. He disconnects �?swiftly and cruelly �?and parts ways with them, often without as much as an explanation (same as he does when he envies someone).

He then proceeds to develop paranoid theories to explain why people, events, institutions and circumstances tend to confront him with his narcissism and he, bitterly and cynically, opposes or avoids them. As anti-narcissistic agents they constitute a threat to the very coherence and continuity of his personality and this probably serves to explain the ferocity, malice, obduracy, consistency and exaggeration which characterise his reactions. Faced with the potential collapse or dysfunctioning of his False Self �?the narcissist also faces the terrible consequences of being left alone and defenceless with his sadistic, maligned, self-destructive Superego.

More about the narcissist's defenses (he perceives the NPD diagnosis as he would criticism or rebuke):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq73.html

Abusers regularly deny the abuse ever took place - or rationalize their abusive behaviors. Denial is an integral part of the abuser's ability to "look at himself/herself in the mirror".

 
There are many types of denial. When confronted by his victims, most abusers tend to shift blame or avoid the topic altogether.
 
Total denial
 
1. Outright denial

Typical retorts by the abuser:

"It never happened, or it was not abuse, you are just imagining it, or you want to hurt my (the abuser's) feelings"

 
2. Alloplastic defense

Common sentences when challenged:

"It was your fault, you, or your behavior, or the circumstances, provoked me into such behavior"

 
3. Altruistic defense

Usual convoluted explanations:

"I did it for you, in your best interests"

 
4. Transformative defense

Recurring themes:

"What I did to you was not abuse - it was common and accepted behavior (at the time, or in the context of the prevailing culture or in accordance with social norms), it was not meant as abuse"

Abusers frequently have narcissistic traits. As such, they are more concerned with appearance than with substance. Dependent for narcissistic supply on the community - neighbors, colleagues, co-workers, bosses, friends, extended family - they cultivate an unblemished reputation for honesty, industriousness, religiosity, reliability, and conformity.

 
Forms of denial in public
 
4. Family honor stricture

Characteristic admonitions:

"We don't do dirty laundry publicly, the family's honor and repute must be preserved, what will the neighbors say?"

 
5. Family functioning stricture

Dire and ominous scenarios:

"If you snitch and inform the authorities, they will take me (the abusive parent) away and the whole family will disintegrate"

Confronting the abuser with incontrovertible proof of his abusive behavior is one way of minimizing contact with him. Abusers - like the narcissists that they often are - cannot tolerate criticism or disagreement (more about it here).

Other stratagems for making your abuser uncomfortable and, thus, giving him a recurrent incentive to withdraw - here and here.

About the grandiosity gap that underlies the narcissistic abuser's inability to face reality - here and here.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Sam


Reply
 Message 18 of 25 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamesamvakSent: 27/11/2003 2:23 p.m.
3.  In court/custody issues, what is the best way (or hints) on how to show his TRUE SIDE (since mine has been so successful  - thus far - on playing the "poor me... I just want to bond with my son" act)?... and THEY FALL FOR IT!
4.  Because my 'p' never HIT me, the court system basically doesn't recognize any kind of abuse (this would be the primary way to keep him from having our baby ALONE)...do you know of anything legally that would help me in terms of proving abuse?
 
Sam:
 
Happy Thanksgiving, Chicken Nugget, everyone!

Here are a few of the things the narcissist finds devastating, especially in a court of law, for instance during a deposition:

Any statement or fact, which seems to contradict his inflated perception of his grandiose self. Any criticism, disagreement, exposure of fake achievements, belittling of "talents and skills" which the narcissist fantasizes that he possesses, any hint that he is subordinated, subjugated, controlled, owned or dependent upon a third party. Any description of the narcissist as average and common, indistinguishable from many others. Any hint that the narcissist is weak, needy, dependent, deficient, slow, not intelligent, naive, gullible, susceptible, not in the know, manipulated, a victim.

The narcissist is likely to react with rage to all these and, in an effort to re-establish his fantastic grandiosity, he is likely to expose facts and stratagems he had no conscious intention of exposing.

The narcissist reacts with narcissistic rage, hatred, aggression, or violence to an infringement of what he perceives to be his entitlement. Any insinuation, hint, intimation, or direct declaration that the narcissist is not special at all, that he is average, common, not even sufficiently idiosyncratic to warrant a fleeting interest will inflame the narcissist.

Tell the narcissist that he does not deserve the best treatment, that his needs are not everyone's priority, that he is boring, that his needs can be catered to by an average practitioner (medical doctor, accountant, lawyer, psychiatrist), that he and his motives are transparent and can be easily gauged, that he will do what he is told, that his temper tantrums will not be tolerated, that no special concessions will be made to accommodate his inflated sense of self, that he is subject to court procedures, etc. - and the narcissist will lose control.

Contradict, expose, humiliate, and berate the narcissist ("You are not as intelligent as you think you are", "Who is really behind all this? It takes sophistication which you don't seem to have", "So, you have no formal education", "you are (mistake his age, make him much older) ... sorry, you are ... old", "What did you do in your life? Did you study? Do you have a degree? Did you ever establish or run a business? Would you define yourself as a success?", "Would your children share your view that you are a good father?", "You were last seen with a Ms. ... who is (suppressed grin) a cleaning lady (in demeaning disbelief)".

Be equipped with absolutely unequivocal, first rate, thoroughly authenticated and vouched for information.

It is telling that precious few psychology and psychopathology textbooks dedicate an entire chapter to abuse and violence. Even the most egregious manifestations �?/SPAN> such as child sexual abuse �?/SPAN> merit a fleeting mention, usually as a sub-chapter in a larger section dedicated to paraphilias or personality disorders.

Abusive behavior did not make it into the diagnostic criteria of mental health disorders, nor were its psychodynamic, cultural and social roots explored in depth. As a result of this deficient education and lacking awareness, most law enforcement officers, judges, counselors, guardians, and mediators are worryingly ignorant about the phenomenon.

Only 4% of hospital emergency room admissions of women in the United States are attributed by staff to domestic violence. The true figure, according to the FBI, is more like 50%. One in three murdered women was done in by her spouse, current or former.

The US Department of Justice pegs the number of spouses (mostly women) threatened with a deadly weapon at almost 2 million annually. Domestic violence erupts in a mind-boggling half of all American homes at least once a year. Nor are these isolated, "out of the blue", incidents.

Mistreatment and violence are part of an enduring pattern of maladaptive behavior within the relationship and are sometimes coupled with substance abuse. Abusers are possessive, pathologically jealous, dependent, and, often, narcissistic. Invariably, both the abuser and his victim seek to conceal the abusive episodes and their aftermath from family, friends, neighbors, or colleagues.

This dismal state of things is an abuser's and stalker's paradise. This is especially true with psychological (verbal and emotional) abuse which leaves no visible marks and renders the victim incapable of coherence.

Still, there is no "typical" offender. Maltreatment crosses racial, cultural, social, and economic lines. This is because, until very recently, abuse has constituted normative, socially-acceptable, and, sometimes, condoned, behavior. For the bulk of human history, women and children were considered no better than property.

Indeed, well into the 18th century, they still made it into lists of assets and liabilities of the household. Early legislation in America �?/SPAN> fashioned after European law, both Anglo-Saxon and Continental �?/SPAN> permitted wife battering for the purpose of behavior modification. The circumference of the stick used, specified the statute, should not exceed that of the husband's thumb.

Inevitably, many victims blame themselves for the dismal state of affairs. The abused party may have low self-esteem, a fluctuating sense of self-worth, primitive defense mechanisms, phobias, mental health problems, a disability, a history of failure, or a tendency to blame herself, or to feel inadequate (autoplastic neurosis).

She may have come from an abusive family or environment �?/SPAN> which conditioned her to expect abuse as inevitable and "normal". In extreme and rare cases �?/SPAN> the victim is a masochist, possessed of an urge to seek ill-treatment and pain. Gradually, the victims convert these unhealthy emotions and their learned helplessness in the face of persistent "gaslighting" into psychosomatic symptoms, anxiety and panic attacks, depression, or, in extremis, suicidal ideation and gestures.

From the Narcissistic Personality Disorders list �?/SPAN> excerpt from my book "Toxic Relationships - Abuse and its Aftermath" (forthcoming, 2004):

"Therapists, marriage counselors, mediators, court-appointed guardians, police officers, and judges are human. Some of them are social reactionaries, others are narcissists, and a few are themselves spouse abusers. Many things work against the victim facing the justice system and the psychological profession.

Start with denial. Abuse is such a horrid phenomenon that society and its delegates often choose to ignore it or to convert it into a more benign manifestation, typically by pathologizing the situation or the victim �?/SPAN> rather than the perpetrator.

A man's home is still his castle and the authorities are loath to intrude.

Most abusers are men and most victims are women. Even the most advanced communities in the world are largely patriarchal. Misogynistic gender stereotypes, superstitions, and prejudices are strong.

Therapists are not immune to these ubiquitous and age-old influences and biases.

They are amenable to the considerable charm, persuasiveness, and manipulativeness of the abuser and to his impressive thespian skills. The abuser offers a plausible rendition of the events and interprets them to his favor. The therapist rarely has a chance to witness an abusive exchange first hand and at close quarters. In contrast, the abused are often on the verge of a nervous breakdown: harassed, unkempt, irritable, impatient, abrasive, and hysterical.

Confronted with this contrast between a polished, self-controlled, and suave abuser and his harried casualties �?/SPAN> it is easy to reach the conclusion that the real victim is the abuser, or that both parties abuse each other equally. The prey's acts of self-defense, assertiveness, or insistence on her rights are interpreted as aggression, lability, or a mental health problem.

The profession's propensity to pathologize extends to the wrongdoers as well. Alas, few therapists are equipped to do proper clinical work, including diagnosis.

Abusers are thought by practitioners of psychology to be emotionally disturbed, the twisted outcomes of a history of familial violence and childhood traumas. They are typically diagnosed as suffering from a personality disorder, an inordinately low self-esteem, or codependence coupled with an all-devouring fear of abandonment. Consummate abusers use the right vocabulary and feign the appropriate "emotions" and affect and, thus, sway the evaluator's judgment.

But while the victim's "pathology" works against her �?/SPAN> especially in custody battles �?/SPAN> the culprit's "illness" works for him, as a mitigating circumstance, especially in criminal proceedings. 

In his seminal essay, "Understanding the Batterer in Visitation and Custody Disputes", Lundy Bancroft sums up the asymmetry in favor of the offender:

"Batterers ...  adopt the role of a hurt, sensitive man who doesn't understand how things got so bad and just wants to work it all out 'for the good of the children.' He may cry ... and use language that demonstrates considerable insight into his own feelings. He is likely to be skilled at explaining how other people have turned the victim against him, and how she is denying him access to the children as a form of revenge ... He commonly accuses her of having mental health problems, and may state that her family and friends agree with him ...  that she is hysterical and that she is promiscuous. The abuser tends to be comfortable lying, having years of practice, and so can sound believable when making baseless statements. The abuser benefits ... when professionals believe that they can "just tell" who is lying and who is telling the truth, and so fail to adequately investigate.

Because of the effects of trauma, the victim of battering will often seem hostile, disjointed, and agitated, while the abuser appears friendly, articulate, and calm. Evaluators are thus tempted to conclude that the victim is the source of the problems in the relationship."

There is little the victim can do to "educate" the therapist or "prove" to him who is the guilty party. Mental health professionals are as ego-centered as the next person. They are emotionally invested in opinions they form or in their interpretation of the abusive relationship. They perceive every disagreement as a challenge to their authority and are likely to pathologize such behavior, labeling it "resistance" (or worse).

In the process of mediation, marital therapy, or evaluation, counselors frequently propose various techniques to ameliorate the abuse or bring it under control. Woe betides the party that dares object or turn these "recommendations" down. Thus, an abuse victim who declines to have any further contact with her batterer �?/SPAN> is bound to be chastised by her therapist for obstinately refusing to constructively communicate with her violent spouse.

Better to play ball and adopt the sleek mannerisms of your abuser. Sadly, sometimes the only way to convince your therapist that it is not all in your head and that you are a victim �?/SPAN> is by being insincere and by staging a well-calibrated performance, replete with the correct vocabulary. Therapists have Pavlovian reactions to certain phrases and theories and to certain "presenting signs and symptoms" (behaviors during the first few sessions). Learn these �?/SPAN> and use them to your advantage. It is your only chance."

Still, inevitably, especially since you have a child togeher, you will be forced to negotiate and conclude agreements with your abusive ex.

How can one negotiate with an abuser without incurring his wrath? What is the meaning of contracts "signed" with bullies? How can one motivate the abuser to keep his end of the bargain - for instance, to actually seek therapy and attend the sessions? And how efficacious is psychotherapy or counseling to start with?

It is useless to confront the abuser head on and to engage in power politics ("You are guilty or wrong, I am the victim and right", "My will should prevail", and so on). It is decidedly counterproductive and unhelpful and could lead to rage attacks and a deepening of the abuser's persecutory delusions, bred by his humiliation in the therapeutic setting. Better, at first, to co-opt the abuser's own prejudices and pathology by catering to his infantile emotional needs and complying with his wishes, complex rules and arbitrary rituals.

Here a practical guide how to drag your abuser into treatment and into a contract of mutual respect and cessation of hostilities (assuming, of course, you want to preserve the relationship):

1. Tell him that you love him and emphasize the exclusivity of your relationship by refraining, initially and during the therapy, from anxiety-provoking acts. Limiting your autonomy is a temporary sacrifice - under no circumstances make it a permanent feature of your relationship. Demonstrate to the abuser that his distrust of you is misplaced and undeserved and that one of the aims of the treatment regimen is to teach him to control and reduce his pathological and delusional jealousy.

2. Define areas of your common life that the abuser can safely - and without infringing on your independence - utterly control. Abusers need to feel that they are in charge, sole decision-makers and arbiters.

3. Ask him to define - preferably in writing - what he expects from you and where he thinks that you, or your "performance" are "deficient". Try to accommodate his reasonable demands and ignore the rest. Do not, at this stage, present a counter-list. This will come later. To move him to attend couple or marital therapy, tell him that you need his help to restore your relationship to its former warmth and intimacy. Admit to faults of your own which you want "fixed" so as to be a better mate. Appeal to his narcissism and self-image as the omnipotent and omniscient macho. Humour him for a while.

4. Involve your abuser, as much as you can, in your life. Take him to meet your family, ask him to join in with your friends, to visit your workplace, to help maintain your car (a symbol of your independence), to advise you on money matters and career steps. Do not hand over control to him over any of these areas - but get him to feel a part of your life and try to mitigate his envy and insecurity.

5. Encourage him to assume responsibility for the positive things in his life and in your relationship. Compliment the beneficial outcomes of his skills, talents, hard work, and attitude. Gradually, he will let go of his alloplastic defences - his tendency to blame every mistake of his, every failure, or mishap on others, or on the world at large.

6. Make him own up to his feelings by identifying them. Most abusers are divorced from their emotions. They seek to explain their inner turmoil by resorting to outside agents ("look what you made me do" or "they provoked me"). They are unaware of their anger, envy, or aggression. Mirror your abuser gently and unobtrusively ("how do you feel about it?", "when I am angry I act the same", "would you be happier if I didn't do it?").

7. Avoid the appearance - or the practice - of manipulating your abuser (except if you want to get rid of him). Abusers are very sensitive to control issues and they feel threatened, exploited, and ill-treated when manipulated. They invariably react with violence.

8. Treat your abuser as you would like him to behave towards you. Personal example is a powerful proselytizer. Don't act out of fear or subservience. Be sincere. Act out of love and conviction. Finally, your conduct is bound to infiltrate the abuser's defenses.

9. React forcefully, unambiguously, and instantly to any use of force. Make clear where the boundary of civilized exchange lies. Punish him severely and mercilessly if he crosses it. Make known well in advance the rules of your relationship - rewards and sanctions included. Discipline him for verbal and emotional abuse as well - though less strenuously. Create a hierarchy of transgressions and a penal code to go with it.

Read these for further guidance:

Coping with Your Abuser

How to Cope with Your Abuser

10. As the therapy continues and progress is evident, try to fray the rigid edges of your sex roles. Most abusers are very much into "me Tarzan, you Jane" gender-casting. Show him his feminine sides and make him proud of them. Gradually introduce him to your masculine traits, or skills - and make him proud of you.

This, essentially, is what good therapists do in trying to roll back or limit the offender's pathology.

Hope this helps!

Take care.

Sam


Reply
 Message 19 of 25 in Discussion 
From: ChickenNuggetSent: 27/11/2003 2:34 p.m.
Dr. Vak -
 
Thank you so much for your insight - have  a GREAT Thanksgiving!  I'll post my questions to your comments later on this evening (if the tryptophan doesn't hit me first).
 
CN

Reply
 Message 20 of 25 in Discussion 
From: ChickenNuggetSent: 27/11/2003 7:06 p.m.
Dr. V -
 
ALL of this applies directly to me!  This has ALL (results of therapies, mediations, etc...) has ALL happened - and EXACTLY like you predicted/depicted.  So, correct my interpretation of how I should deal with this if I have interpretted incorrectly:  I am to act/behave like he does (even though I am being TRUTHFUL about my words and actions, as he IS not)?  The truth is, is I'm AFRAID of what he does with our son while he has 'custody' of him for 8 hours at a time two days a week (currently, he is not permitted to leave my home county), and next year will have him for a weekend at a time (here and there).  The last time I was with this 'man' he had a gun to his head and then told the police that  I made it up and I was mentally insane - what will he do to our son????  I understand that, for now, our son is his 'narcissistic supply', and as our son gets older he will come to understand/reason what his father is all about.  What happens when our son begins to question him?  Will he (my husband) behave towards our son as he has behaved towards me (threats, controlling behavior, entrappment, blaming..???)  I am also afraid that (as I was beginning to feel) my son will begin to feel like he IS insane and something IS, in fact, wrong with him.....  I suppose all I can do is be a strong, mentally stable support system for my son.  It is SO unfortunate that the court system does not view this (what my husband has done and is capable of doing with an innocent child) as abuse.  I just can't believe that there is NOTHING that can be done - I can not just sit by and watch him treat my son like he treated me!  I was scared for my LIFE when I was trapped there (in VA) with him.... and I just have to 'accept' the fact that he can have my son in that situation?  That is a mother's WORST nightmare!  Are you SURE there's nothing that can be done?  My father is a detective and has talked to me about how close I could have been to a "Lacy Peterson" case... my husband had the gun out and had it pointed to his head - as my father says, it's easy for someone like that to turn the gun on the victim.  What if that victim ends up being my son????  I can't sit by and watch this happen to him.  WHAT CAN I DO?  I'm scared for his mental and physical well-being.
 
CN

Reply
 Message 21 of 25 in Discussion 
From: ChickenNuggetSent: 27/11/2003 7:11 p.m.
ps - 
 
And as we speak, I am 'celebrating' my son's first Thanksgiving...without him.  He's with his father, in some hotel room about 15 mintues from my home.  I can't even be WITH HIM on this important day.  And worse than all of this, he (my 'husband') will play the "poor me....I'm the victim" role in court and win their sympathies, even though I am without my son on his first Thanksgiving (and will be on Christmas too) and all because that ASS treated me the way he did - ABUSIVELY!!!  After all of this HE DID, and now I can not be with my son - how is this FAIR????  How can he earn sympathy from the courts????  HOW?   WHY? 
 
CN
 
For all of you whom can celebrate Thanksgiving with your family - give THANKS to the big man above...for you are luckier than you will ever know...until you don't have them :(

Reply
 Message 22 of 25 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamesamvakSent: 28/11/2003 8:36 p.m.
6.  I NEVER saw any of this coming...I knew my husband had some quirks, but this is BEYOND a quirk.  Do the 'p/n' conceal their 'true' identity until they know they HAVE you where they want you?
 
Hi, Chicken Nugget, everyone, hope you had an agreeable Thanksgiving!
 
I never said there is nothing you can do. I am sure that a creative divorce attorney can come up with a plethora of ideas - from court-mandated evaluation to restraning orders. If he pulled a gun on you - never mind which way he directed it - then he is armed and dangerous and your kid IS at risk.
 
Read this:
 
 
Regarding your question (6) above:
 
Narcissists are an elusive breed, hard to spot, harder to pinpoint, impossible to capture. Even an experienced mental health diagnostician with unmitigated access to the record and to the person examined would find it fiendishly difficult to determine with any degree of certainty whether someone suffers from an impairment, i.e., a mental health disorder �?or merely possesses narcissistic traits, a narcissistic personality structure (“character�?, or a narcissistic "overlay" superimposed on another mental health problem.

Moreover, it is important to distinguish between the traits and behaviour patterns that are independent of the patient's cultural-social context (i.e., inherent, or idiosyncratic) - and reactive patterns, or conformity to cultural and social mores and edicts. Reactions to severe life crises are often characterized by transient pathological narcissism, for instance (Ronningstam and Gunderson, 1996). But such reactions do not a narcissist make.

When a person lives in a society and culture that has often been described as narcissistic by the leading lights of scholarly research (e.g., Theodore Millon) and social thinking (e.g., Christopher Lasch) - how much of his behaviour can be attributed to his milieu �?and which of his traits are really his?

Moreover, there is a qualitative difference between having narcissistic traits, a narcissistic personality, or the Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The latter is rigorously defined in the DSM IV-TR and includes strict criteria and differential diagnoses (for more, see here: http://samvak.tripod.com/npdglance.html).

Narcissism is regarded by many scholars to be an adaptative strategy ("healthy narcissism"). It is considered pathological in the clinical sense only when it becomes a rigid personality structure replete with a series of primitive defence mechanisms (such as splitting, projection, projective identification, intellectualization) �?and when it leads to dysfunctions in one or more areas of life.

Pathological narcissism is the art of deception. The narcissist projects a False Self and manages all his social interactions through this concocted fictional construct. People often find themselves involved with a narcissist (emotionally, in business, or otherwise) before they have a chance to discover his true nature.

When the narcissist reveals his true colors, it is usually far too late. His victims are unable to separate from him. They are frustrated by this acquired helplessness and angry that they failed to see through the narcissist earlier on.

But the narcissist does emit subtle, almost subliminal, signals ("presenting symptoms") even in a first or casual encounter.

Based on "How to Recognize a Narcissist":

"Haughty" body language �?The narcissist adopts a physical posture which implies and exudes an air of superiority, seniority, hidden powers, mysteriousness, amused indifference, etc. Though the narcissist usually maintains sustained and piercing eye contact, he often refrains from physical proximity (he is "territorial").

The narcissist takes part in social interactions - even mere banter - condescendingly, from a position of supremacy and faux "magnanimity and largesse". But he rarely mingles socially and prefers to remain the "observer", or the "lone wolf".

Entitlement markers �?The narcissist immediately asks for "special treatment" of some kind. Not to wait his turn, to have a longer or a shorter therapeutic session, to talk directly to authority figures (and not to their assistants or secretaries), to be granted special payment terms, to enjoy custom tailored arrangements.

The narcissist is the one who - vocally and demonstratively - demands the undivided attention of the head waiter in a restaurant, or monopolizes the hostess, or latches on to celebrities in a party. The narcissist reacts with rage and indignantly when denied his wishes and if treated equally with others whom he deems inferior.

Idealisation or devaluation �?The narcissist instantly idealises or devalues his interlocutor. This depends on how the narcissist appraises the potential one has as a Narcissistic Supply Source. The narcissist flatters, adores, admires and applauds the "target" in an embarrassingly exaggerated and profuse manner �?or sulks, abuses, and humiliates her.

Narcissists are polite only in the presence of a potential Supply Source. But they are unable to sustain even perfunctory civility and fast deteriorate to barbs and thinly-veiled hostility, to verbal or other violent displays of abuse, rage attacks, or cold detachment.

The "membership" posture �?The narcissist always tries to "belong". Yet, at the very same time, he maintains his stance as an outsider. The narcissist seeks to be admired for his ability to integrate and ingratiate himself without investing the efforts commensurate with such an undertaking.

For instance: if the narcissist talks to a psychologist, the narcissist first states emphatically that he never studied psychology. He then proceeds to make seemingly effortless use of obscure professional terms, thus demonstrating that he mastered the discipline all the same - which proves that he is exceptionally intelligent or introspective.

In general, the narcissist always prefers show-off to substance. One of the most effective methods of exposing a narcissist is by trying to delve deeper. The narcissist is shallow, a pond pretending to be an ocean. He likes to think of himself as a Renaissance man, a Jack of all trades. A narcissist never admits to ignorance in any field - yet, typically, he is ignorant of them all. It is surprisingly easy to penetrate the gloss and the veneer of the narcissist's self-proclaimed omniscience.

Bragging and false autobiography �?The narcissist brags incessantly. His speech is peppered with "I", "my", "myself", and "mine". He describes himself as intelligent, or rich, or modest, or intuitive, or creative �?but always excessively, implausibly, and extraordinarily so.

The narcissist's biography sounds unusually rich and complex. His achievements �?incommensurate with his age, education, or renown. Yet, his actual condition is evidently and demonstrably incompatible with his claims. Very often, the narcissist lies or fantasies are easily discernible. He always name-drops and appropriates other people's experiences and accomplishments.

Emotion-free language �?The narcissist likes to talk about himself and only about himself. He is not interested in others or what they have to say, unless it is a potential Source of Supply and in order to obtain said supply. He acts bored, disdainful, even angry, if he feels an intrusion on and abuse of his precious time.

In general, the narcissist is very impatient, easily bored, with strong attention deficits �?unless and until he is the topic of discussion. One can dissect all aspects of the intimate life of a narcissist, providing the discourse is not "emotionally tinted". If asked to relate directly to his emotions, the narcissist intellectualises, rationalises, speaks about himself in the third person and in a detached "scientific" tone or composes a narrative with a fictitious character in it, suspiciously autobiographical.

Seriousness and sense of intrusion and coercion �?The narcissist is dead serious about himself. He may possess a fabulous sense of humour, scathing and cynical, but rarely is he self-deprecating. The narcissist regards himself as being on a constant mission, whose importance is cosmic and whose consequences are global. If a scientist �?he is always in the throes of revolutionising science. If a journalist �?he is in the middle of the greatest story ever.

This self-misperception is not amenable to light-headedness or self-effacement. The narcissist is easily hurt and insulted (narcissistic injury). Even the most innocuous remarks or acts are interpreted by him as belittling, intruding, or coercive. His time is more valuable than others' �?therefore, it cannot be wasted on unimportant matters such as social intercourse.

Any suggested help, advice, or concerned inquiry are immediately cast by the narcissist as intentional humiliation, implying that the narcissist is in need of help and counsel and, thus, imperfect. Any attempt to set an agenda is, to the narcissist, an intimidating act of enslavement. In this sense, the narcissist is both schizoid and paranoid and often entertains ideas of reference.

These �?the lack of empathy, the aloofness, the disdain, the sense of entitlement, the restricted application of humour, the unequal treatment and the paranoia �?make the narcissist a social misfit. The narcissist is able to provoke in his milieu, in his casual acquaintances, even in his psychotherapist, the strongest, most avid and furious hatred and revulsion. To his shock, indignation and consternation, he invariably induces in others unbridled aggression.

He is perceived to be asocial at best and, often, antisocial. This, perhaps, is the strongest presenting symptom. One feels ill at ease in the presence of a narcissist for no apparent reason. No matter how charming, intelligent, thought provoking, outgoing, easy going and social the narcissist is �?he fails to secure the sympathy of his fellow humans, a sympathy he is never ready, willing, or able to grant them in the first place.

We are surrounded by malignant narcissists. How come this disorder has hitherto been largely ignored? How come there is such a dearth of research and literature regarding this crucial family of pathologies? Even mental health practitioners are woefully unaware of it and unprepared to assist its victims.

The sad answer is that narcissism meshes well with our culture - see: http://samvak.tripod.com/lasch.html

It is kind of a "background cosmic radiation", permeating every social and cultural interaction. It is hard to distinguish pathological narcissists from self-assertive, self-confident, self-promoting, eccentric, or highly individualistic persons. Hard sell, greed, envy, self-centredness, exploitativeness, diminished empathy - are all socially condoned features of Western civilization.

Our society is atomized, the outcome of individualism gone awry. It encourages narcissistic leadership and role models: http://samvak.tripod.com/15.html

Its sub-structures - institutionalized religion, political parties, civic organizations, the media, corporations - are all suffused with narcissism and pervaded by its pernicious outcomes: http://samvak.tripod.com/14.html

The very ethos of materialism and capitalism upholds certain narcissistic traits, such as reduced empathy, exploitation, a sense of entitlement, or grandiose fantasies ("vision").

More about this here: http://samvak.tripod.com/journal37.html

Narcissists are aided, abetted and facilitated by four types of people and institutions: the adulators, the blissfully ignorant, the self-deceiving and those deceived by the narcissist.

The adulators are fully aware of the nefarious and damaging aspects of the narcissist's behaviour but believe that they are more than balanced by the benefits - to themselves, to their collective, or to society at large. They engage in an explicit trade-off between some of their principles and values - and their personal profit, or the greater good.

They seek to help the narcissist, promote his agenda, shield him from harm, connect him with like-minded people, do his chores for him and, in general, create the conditions and the environment for his success. This kind of alliance is especially prevalent in political parties, the government, multinational, religious organizations and other hierarchical collectives.

The blissfully ignorant are simply unaware of the "bad sides" of the narcissist- and make sure they remain so. They look the other way, or pretend that the narcissist's behavior is normative, or turn a blind eye to his egregious misbehaviour. They are classic deniers of reality. Some of them maintain a generally rosy outlook premised on the inbred benevolence of Mankind. Others simply cannot tolerate dissonance and discord. They prefer to live in a fantastic world where everything is harmonious and smooth and evil is banished. They react with rage to any information to the contrary and block it out instantly. This type of denial is well evidenced in dysfunctional families.

The self-deceivers are fully aware of the narcissist's transgressions and malice, his indifference, exploitativeness, lack of empathy, and rampant grandiosity - but they prefer to displace the causes, or the effects of such misconduct. They attribute it to externalities ("a rough patch"), or judge i t to be temporary. They even go as far as accusing the victim for the narcissist's lapses, or for defending themselves ("she provoked him").

In a feat of cognitive dissonance, they deny any connection between the acts of the narcissist and their consequences ("his wife abandoned him because she was promiscuous, not because of anything he did to her"). They are swayed by the narcissist's undeniable charm, intelligence, or attractiveness. But the narcissist needs not invest resources in converting them to his cause - he does not deceive them. They are self-propelled into the abyss that is narcissism. The Inverted Narcissists, for instance, is a self-deceiver: http://samvak.tripod.com/faq66.html

The deceived are people - or institutions, or collectives - deliberately taken for a premeditated ride by the narcissist. He feeds them false information, manipulates their judgement, proffers plausible scenarios to account for his indiscretions, soils the opposition, charms them, appeals to their reason, or to their emotions, and promises the moon.

Again, the narcissist's incontrovertible powers of persuasion and his impressive personality play a part in this predatory ritual. The deceived are especially hard to deprogram. They are often themselves encumbered with narcissistic traits and find it impossible to admit a mistake, or to atone.

They are likely to stay on with the narcissist to his - and their - bitter end.

Regrettably, the narcissist rarely pays the price for his offenses. His victims pick up the tab. But even here the malignant optimism of the abused never ceases to amaze (read this: http://samvak.tripod.com/journal27.html).

Have a tranquil, safe, and warm week.

Sam


Reply
(1 recommendation so far) Message 23 of 25 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamesamvakSent: 29/11/2003 3:00 p.m.
7.  Will I EVER be RID of this "man"?
8.  I'm really hoping he finds a new source and leaves my son and I alone... is this a possibilty?  Can  I do anything to expediate the process?
 
Hi, Chicken Nugget,
 
This is our last day together. I hope you found it useful hitherto.

Narcissists are addicted to a drug known as "Narcissistic Supply". Attention (good OR bad), adulation, applause, fame, celebrity, notoriety - are all narcissistic supply. The people who supply these consistently, reliably, and predictably, are called "Narcissistic Supply Sources". By fighting him in the courts, for instance, without realizing it, you have increased your value as a source of supply!

Only ignoring the narcissist gets rid of him for a while.

Why should the narcissist look for another source of supply if the current source of supply is available (always pays attention to him and to his exploits)?

Cultivating a source of secondary narcissistic supply is a VERY time consuming and energy consuming affair. The path of least resistance (reverting to old sources) is always preferred.

The old source has the advantage of having recorded memories of past grandeur. Her very "surrender" and "yielding to his charms" IS the supply he seeks.

He sort of pushes the envelope, trying to ascertain and map the outer limits of his potency as irresistible male and mate. The more tortured the relationship - the sweeter the recurrent victory. This is doubly true when the narcissist is in the throes of life crises such as loss of a job, divorce, serious illness, etc.

You may wish to refresh your memory regarding libidinal allocation in pathological narcissists:

http//samvak.tripod.com/msla7.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/msla8.html

Narcissists have no enemies. They have only Sources of Narcissistic Supply. An enemy means attention means supply. One holds sway over one's enemy. If the narcissist has the power to provoke emotions in you �?you are still a Source of Supply to him, regardless of WHICH emotions are provoked.

He seeks out his old Sources of Narcissistic Supply when he has absolutely no other NS Sources at his disposal. Narcissists frantically try to recycle their old and wasted sources in such a situation. But the narcissist would NOT do even this had he not felt that he could still successfully extract a modicum of NS from the old source (even to attack the narcissist is to recognise his existence and to attend to him!!!).

If you are an old Source of Narcissistic Supply, first, minimize contact with him. Simply ignore him. Don't bother to respond in any way to his offer to get together. If he talks to you �?keep quiet, don't answer. If he calls you �?listen politely and then say goodbye and hang up. Indifference is what the narcissist cannot stand. It indicates a lack of attention and interest that constitutes the kernel of negative NS.

I repeat my earlier advice:

Be sure to maintain as much contact with your abuser as the courts, counsellors, mediators, guardians, or law enforcement officials mandate.

Do NOT contravene the decisions of the system. Work from the inside to change judgments, evaluations, or rulings - but NEVER rebel against them or ignore them. You will only turn the system against you and your interests.

But with the exception of the minimum mandated by the courts - decline any and all gratuitous contact with the narcissist.

Do not respond to his pleading, romantic, nostalgic, flattering, or threatening e-mail messages.

Return all gifts he sends you.

Refuse him entry to your premises. Do not even respond to the intercom.

Do not talk to him on the phone. Hang up the minute you hear his voice while making clear to him, in a single, polite but firm, sentence, that you are determined not to talk to him.

Do not answer his letters.

Do not visit him on special occasions, or in emergencies.

Do not respond to questions, requests, or pleas forwarded to you through third parties.

Disconnect from third parties whom you know are spying on you at his behest.

Do not discuss him with your children.

Do not gossip about him.

Do not ask him for anything, even if you are in dire need.

When you are forced to meet him, do not discuss your personal affairs - or his.

Relegate any inevitable contact with him - when and where possible - to professionals: your lawyer, or your accountant.

Much more in FAQ 64 and FAQ 25 in "Malignant Self Love �?Narcissism Revisited".

Chicken Nugget, the most important and painful steps are behind you. So is the narcissist. Get on with your life as far away from him as you can.

I wish you luck!

Sam


Reply
 Message 24 of 25 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknamelibertybell6986Sent: 1/12/2003 2:35 p.m.
Thank you so much for this talk on N.  These suggestions can hold true for me i know as well.  I have been separated from my N since Feb. of last year.  He
has been verbally, emotionally abusive in the marriage.  I have found out that
he has had allegations against him from the State of Maine saying that he had
molested his stepdaughther years ago.  That is the final straw in the marriage.
I got my phone W# changed, and got a restrainingt order filed on him.
 
He says that he won't fight the divorce, but he has hired a lawyer on his
behalf.  He isn't even going to the final divorce hearing, he is going to have his
lawyer go.  Just another tactic.  He has hurt and abused me and my kids for
the last time.  I will try your suggestions, and not have anything to do with him.
 
than ks for the input.  mary w

Reply
 Message 25 of 25 in Discussion 
From: ChickenNuggetSent: 1/12/2003 3:01 p.m.
Dr. V -
 
Thank you for all of your insight and knowledge!  It is/has been a great amount of support and help to me - more than you can imagine!  Thank you again for everything - we are all lucky to have you here on this board!
 
CN

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