oh that's an excellent explaination kikilander!! That is so right on.

Trudy, 

 

My XNBF used to live with a woman who inherited a very expensive house. 

 

The word on the grapevine is that he was invited to leave because he was draining her financially.  I know it's true.  The "gossip" came from a pretty reliable source:  His father.  Additionally, I've lived through his financial abuse. 

 

I know the XNBF's m.o. -- live on credit today, spend, spend, spend, and when "we" sell "our" house, we'll pay the bills then. 

 

I guess she didn't go for the idea. 

 

Anyway . . .  One day he had his keys in his hand and he looked at them and said, "Huh!  I still have the keys to my house on this ring!" 

 

The train of thought here is different than your post, but you get the drift, I'm sure. 

 

Gloria

 

 

Mine repeatedly used to say to me

 

 

Never mind the fact that I didn't 'belong' to him anyway but I mean wtf???

 

purple x

 

I'm sort of on the same page as bumpy and movinon, except I think that N's are pathologically envious of everything and that's why every single thing you do ends up feeling like a competition or something.  I think the envy doesn't come because they loved and lost and are hurting over it, I think the envy comes, as movinon paraphrased, from loss of control and power over you.  From the N's low self esteem.  But love isn't part of that equation.

 

 

memoir.....it was just explained to me that way by a psychiatrist recently and maybe I uderstand it better because of the emotional place I am in right now.  But based on his behavior, it does make sense.....

 

He did finally stop being posessive and stalking after several months but I think it was because he realized I had more knowledge than he wanted me to have regaring his lies and stories of being tortured as a Navy SEAL.  I knew he was abusiing steroids and that he never worked for the NSA and that all he had was given to him by wealthy aunts.  He didn't work for anything.  he knew he couldn't snow me.  It doesn't make them want us less.......they just want us for all the reasons we won't understnad or comprehend because the idea of owning someone simply to manipulate their thoughts is foreign to us because we are helathy, normal individuals, who want real relationships with people who have the capability to feel.

 

Hi movinon :-)

 

I think the psychiatrist's explanation is really really valuable and well put, especially that "need to feed their own desire which is to control" part where he described how that feels like love to them.  It's that intensity thing that I heard a psychiatrist talk about on television describing the narcissistic element of a serial killer.  She said they mistake intensity for love.  Best explanation I ever heard.  That's the same thing your doc is saying.

 

What I'm referring to re pathological envy is to suggest why they have the desire to control in the first place, which really has nothing to do with any relationship as a cause for jealousy.  I apologize for the confusion. 

 

I wish I'd had a doctor like yours!

 

Much love,

~mems

 

 

memoir, 

 

This dr is actually someone I met through reading articles on sociopathy.  She and I have had "friendly" contact and correspondence.  She had a horrible experience with a psychopath and is now doing researh.

 

She also had me answer a lot of questions relative to his personality (Dr Robert Hare has an assemssment that is used) and explained that psychopathy/sociopathy should be thought of in terms of "how tall" someone is.....as opposed to whether they are or not.  I think she menas that intensity that you discussed here.  It REALLY makes sense.  They all have potential to be criminal but some more than others.

 

What we mistake as intense love and incredibly protective or jealous are emotions WE can relate to so we mistake them for love.  Their emotions are riddled with negativity, envy, control, fear, We dont think that way.  Plus, they are deceitful and sometimes IMITATE behaviors and emotions of "normal" people.  THAT's why we are in this fog.  THAT's why this can happen to anyone.

 

It took me almost 2 years to realize these behaviors and the D&D's were not my fault, that the drama in his life and with his family was not caused by our relationship or his divorce.  A year later, I still struggle but just recently I have started to realize the dysfunction is so deep that there was no way I could have seen all this up front.....I did see red flags but tolerated it because I though the had something to offer me that was so important.  he targeted me and ate away at the good in me and as a result I lost my ability to trust and my own good intuition.  SLOWLY, I am working my way back.

 

Wow, what a fortuitous meeting!

 

And yes on what you said about the depth of the dysfunction.  I've thought a lot about that also.  It's so incredibly deep that you keep going lower and lower to find the bottom, but there is no bottom.  It's stunning, really.  You can never go low enough to find the fix.  You wake up one day and realize you're in hell.

 

All you can do is climb out, slowly or otherwise.

 

Huggggggs,

~mems

mems,

 

I think this is why I need to keep coming back here.  When their disorder starts to seem insignificant or someone tells me to just get over it or it feels like people minimize what he has done and how he has behaved..........  I need the reassurance from people like yourself that SOMEBODY GETS IT !!

 

You so eloquently put it..... "You wake up one day and you're in hell".  It's true.  it literally happened to me like that.  I physically shook for three days.  Then he followed me to work one day to talk to me....just to tell me that he wanted me to find him in bed with that woman!

 

God help him....  I'm climbing but I can't get out FAST enough.

 

 

true bumpy..... it's a good way of looking at it.  A year later and i am still hearing more things, more truths, it's never ending.  The worst part was the family drama.....  THAT was the biggest red flag.  he has created two adult daughters in his image.  THAT wll be his life long cross to bear.  They are badly behaved, disrespectful, can't support themselves,  DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA. 

 

It was getting worse by the minute.