Hi, Jill, thank you for your kind words and welcome.

 

Narcissists acknowledge their condition and the pain they cause only in the wake of a life crisis - traumatic divorce, incarceration, financial loss, death of an important source of supply, and so on.

 

But even then the narcissist merely seeks to restore the previous situation - not to change his ways, or to "heal".

 

These may shed more light on the dynamics involved:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And many other relevant insights here:

 

 

From "Other People's Pain"

 

What is unusual about the narcissist's sadistic behaviours - premeditated acts of tormenting others while enjoying their anguished reactions - is that they are goal orientated. "Pure" sadists have no goal in mind except the pursuit of pleasure - pain as an art form (remember the Marquis de Sade?). The narcissist, on the other hand, haunts and hunts his victims for a reason - he wants them to reflect his inner state. It is all part of a mechanism called "Projective Identification".

When the narcissist is angry, unhappy, disappointed, injured, or hurt - he feels unable to express his emotions sincerely and openly since to do so would be to admit his frailty, his neediness, and his weaknesses. He deplores his own humanity - his emotions, his vulnerability, his susceptibility, his gullibility, his inadequacies, and his failures. So, he makes use of other people to express his pain and his frustration, his pent up anger and his aggression. He achieves this by mentally torturing other people to the point of madness, by driving them to violence, by reducing them to scar tissue in search of outlet, closure, and, sometimes, revenge. He forces people to lose their own character traits - and adopt his own instead. In reaction to his constant and well-targeted abuse, they become abusive, vengeful, ruthless, lacking empathy, obsessed, and aggressive. They mirror him faithfully and thus relieve him of the need to express himself directly."

From "The Narcissist as a Sadist"

"A narcissist would tend to display the sadistic aspect of his personality in one of two cases:

1. That the very acts of sadism would generate Narcissistic Supply to be consumed by the narcissist ("I inflict pain, therefore I am superior"), or

2. That the victims of his sadism are still his only or major Sources of Narcissistic Supply but are perceived by him to be intentionally frustrating and withholding it. Sadistic acts are his way of punishing them for not being docile, obedient, admiring and adoring as he expects them to be in view of his uniqueness, cosmic significance and special entitlement.

The narcissist is not a sadist or a paranoiac, per se. He does not enjoy the application of pain to his victims. He does not believe firmly that he is the focal point of persecution and the target of conspiracy. But he does enjoy punishing himself �?it provides him with a sense of relief, exoneration and validation. In this restricted sense he is a masochist. Because of his lack of empathy and his rigid personality he often inflicts great (physical or mental) pain on meaningful others in his life �?and he enjoys their writhing and suffering. In this restricted sense he is a sadist.

To support his sense of uniqueness, greatness and (cosmic) significance, he is often afraid of his environment in a manner incommensurate with the facts. If he falls from grace �?he attributes it to dark forces out to destroy him. If his sense of entitlement is not satisfied �?he attributes it to the fear that he invokes in others and to their intentional ignoring of his grandness. In these restricted ways, he is a paranoid.

The narcissist is an artist of pain as much as any sadist. The difference between them is in the motivation. The narcissist tortures and abuses as means to punish and to reassert superiority and grandiosity. The sadist does so for pure (usually, sexual) enjoyment. But both are adept at finding the chinks in people's armours. Both are ruthless and venomous in the pursuit of their prey. Both are unable to empathise with their victims, self-centred, and rigid.

The narcissist abuses his victim verbally, mentally, or physically (often, in all three ways). He infiltrates her defences, shatters her self-confidence, confuses and confounds her, demeans and debases her. He invades her territory, abuses her confidence, exhausts her resources, hurts her loved ones, threatens her stability and security, involves her in his paranoid states of mind, frightens her out of her wits, withholds love and sex from her, prevents satisfaction and causes frustration, humiliates and insults her privately and in public, points out her shortcomings, criticises her profusely and in a "scientific and objective" manner �?and this is a partial list. Very often, the narcissist acts sadistically in the guise of an enlightened interest in the welfare of his victim. He plays the psychiatrist to her psychopathology (totally dreamt up by him). He acts the guru to her need of guidance, the avuncular or father figure, the teacher, the only true friend, the old and the experienced. All this in order to weaken her defences and to lay siege to her disintegrating nerves. So subtle and poisonous is the narcissistic variant of sadism that it might well be regarded as the most dangerous of all.

Luckily, the narcissist's attention span is short and his resources and energy limited. In constant, effort consuming and attention diverting pursuit of Narcissistic Supply, the narcissist lets his victim go, usually before an irreversible damage occurs. The victim is then free to rebuild her life from ruins. Not an easy undertaking, this �?but far better than the total obliteration which awaits the victims of the "true" sadist."

And don't forget this:

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal8.html

Take care.

 

Sam

 

So, when we mirror their behavior and they are disgusted by it, do they know we're giving it back? or do they really believe that they are better than us.(because we shouldn't behave that way-how dare we?)

Hi, Jill,

The narcissist has very little self-awareness and introspection. As a result, when you mirror a narcissist - he doesn't "get it". He doesn't realize that you merely aping his obnoxious traits and behaviors. Instead, he projects these onto you. He may say: "You are so aggressive/arrogant/insensitive/inconsiderate. Whatever happened to you? What did I do to deserve this?". Two defense mechanisms are at work: projection and denial.

Sometimes the narcissist does gain awareness and knowledge of his predicament - typically in the wake of a life crisis (divorce, bankruptcy, incarceration, near death experience, death in the family). But, in the absence of an emotional correlate, of feelings, such merely cognitive awakening is useless. It does not yield insight. The dry facts do not bring about a transformation, let alone healing.

The introspection of the narcissist is emotionless, akin to the listing of an inventory of his "good" and "bad" sides and without any commitment to change. It does not enhance his ability to empathize, nor does it inhibit his propensity to exploit others and discard them when their usefulness is over. It does not tamper his overpowering and raging sense of entitlement, nor does it deflate his grandiose fantasies.

The narcissist's introspection is a futile and arid exercise at bookkeeping, a soulless bureaucracy of the psyche and, in its own way, even more chilling that the alternative: a narcissist blissfully unaware of his own disorder.

Moreover, most narcissists are abusers.

Abusers regularly deny the abuse ever took place �?/SPAN> or rationalize their abusive behaviors. Denial is an integral part of the abuser's ability to "look at himself/herself in the mirror".

There are many types of denial. When confronted by his victims, most abusers tend to shift blame or avoid the topic altogether.

Total Denial

1. Outright Denial

Typical retorts by the abuser: "It never happened, or it was not abuse, you are just imagining it, or you want to hurt my (the abuser's) feelings."

2. Alloplastic Defense

Common sentences when challenged: "It was your fault, you, or your behavior, or the circumstances, provoked me into such behavior."

3. Altruistic Defense

Usual convoluted explanations: "I did it for you, in your best interests."

4. Transformative Defense

Recurring themes: "What I did to you was not abuse �?/SPAN> it was common and accepted behavior (at the time, or in the context of the prevailing culture or in accordance with social norms), it was not meant as abuse."

Abusers frequently have narcissistic traits. As such, they are more concerned with appearance than with substance. Dependent for Narcissistic Supply on the community �?/SPAN> neighbors, colleagues, co-workers, bosses, friends, extended family �?/SPAN> they cultivate an unblemished reputation for honesty, industriousness, religiosity, reliability, and conformity.

Forms of Denial in Public

1. Family Honor Stricture

Characteristic admonitions: "We don't do dirty laundry publicly, the family's honor and repute must be preserved, what will the neighbors say?"

2. Family Functioning Stricture

Dire and ominous scenarios: "If you snitch and inform the authorities, they will take me (the abusive parent) away and the whole family will disintegrate."

Confronting the abuser with incontrovertible proof of his abusive behavior is one way of minimizing contact with him. Abusers �?/SPAN> like the narcissists that they often are �?/SPAN> cannot tolerate criticism or disagreement (more about it here).

Other stratagems for making your abuser uncomfortable and, thus, giving him a recurrent incentive to withdraw �?/SPAN> here and here.

About the grandiosity gap that underlies the narcissistic abuser's inability to face reality �?/SPAN> here and here.

Take care.

Sam

So, do narcissists make excuses  so that when the relationship ends they can say that WE did it, noy THEM? That is such crap!!!!!

Sam:

Hi, Jill,

You should hit them nails on the head. I don't know why you bother asking me for advice... (smiling)

Narcissists are terrified of being abandoned exactly as codependents and Borderlines are.

BUT

Their solution is different. Codependents cling. Borderline are emotionally labile and react disastrously to the faintest hint of being abandoned.

Narcissists FACILITATE the abandonment. They MAKE SURE that they are abandoned. This way they secure the achievement of two goals:

1. Getting it over with - The narcissist has a very low threshold of tolerance of uncertainty and inconvenience, emotional or material. Narcissists are very impatient and "spoiled". They cannot delay gratification OR impending doom. They must have it all NOW, good or bad.

2. By bringing the feared abandonment about, the narcissist can lie to himself persuasively. "She didn't abandon me, it is I who abandoned her. I controlled the situation. It was all my doing, so I was really not abandoned, was I now?". In time, the narcissist adopts this "official version" as the truth. He might say: "I deserted her emotionally and sexually long before she left".

This is one of the important Emotional Involvement Prevention Mechanisms (EIPMs) that I write about extensively in: http://narcissism.cjb.net/msla8.html

Take care!

Sam

Sam:

Hi, Jill,

Narcissists cannot stand being ignored. Attention - of any kind - is crucial to the maintenance of their fragile personality structure.

Your lack of reaction provoked him into desparate measures intended to draw your attention.

BUT

If you persist in ignoring him, the narcissist will simply fade away and go looking for alternative, more responsive, sources of supply.

Here is more about narcissistic supply:

Question:

What is Narcissistic Supply?

Answer:

We all look for positive cues from people around us. These cues reinforce in us certain behaviour patterns. There is nothing special in the fact that the narcissist does the same. However there are two major differences between the narcissistic and the normal personality.

The first difference is quantitative. The normal person is likely to welcome a moderate amount of attention �?verbal and non-verbal �?in the form of affirmation, approval, or admiration. Too much attention, though, is perceived as onerous and is avoided.

The narcissist, in contrast, is the mental equivalent of an alcoholic. He asks for more and yet more. He directs his whole behaviour, in fact his life, to obtain these pleasurable titbits of attention. He embeds them in a coherent, completely biased, picture of himself. He uses them to regulates his labile sense of self-worth and self-esteem.

To elicit constant interest, he projects to others a confabulated, fictitious version of himself, known as the False Self. The False Self is everything the narcissist is not: omniscient, omnipotent, charming, intelligent, rich, or well-connected.

The narcissist then proceeds to harvest reactions to this projected image from family members, friends, co-workers, neighbours, business partners and milieu, or from colleagues. If these �?the adulation, admiration, attention, fear, respect, applause, affirmation �?are not forthcoming, the narcissist demands them, or extorts them. Money, compliments, a favourable critique, an appearance in the media, a sexual conquest are all transformed into the same currency in the narcissist's mind.

This currency is what I call Narcissistic Supply.

There are two immediate and easy Sources of Narcissistic Supply: publicity (celebrity or notoriety, being famous or being infamous) and having a mate or a companion. Publicity can be obtained by exposing oneself, by creating something, or by provoking attention. The narcissist resorts to all three repeatedly (as drug addicts do to secure their daily dose).

But the picture is more complicated. There are two categories of Narcissistic Supply and their Sources (NSS):

The Primary Narcissistic Supply Source is attention �?in both its public forms (fame, notoriety, infamy, celebrity) and private forms (adoration, adulation, applause, fear, repulsion). It is important to understand that attention of any kind �?positive and negative �?constitutes Primary Narcissistic Supply. Infamy is as useful as fame, notoriety as good as being renowned.

To the narcissist his "achievements" can be imaginary, fictitious, or only apparent, as long as others believe in them. Appearances count more than substance, what matters is not the truth but its perception.

The Primary Narcissistic Sources of Supply include �?apart from being famous (celebrity, notoriety, fame, infamy) �?mystique (when the narcissist is considered to be mysterious), having sex and deriving from it a sense of masculinity/virility/femininity, a projection of wealth, proximity to power (money/knowledge/contacts) �?in itself mysterious and awe inspiring.

The Secondary Sources of Narcissistic Supply include: leading a normal life (a source of great pride to the narcissist), having a secure existence (economic safety, social acceptability, upward mobility), and obtaining companionship.

The Secondary NSS include having a mate, conspicuous wealth, creativity and its products, running a business (transformed into a Pathological Narcissistic Space), the sense of an anarchic freedom, belonging to a group of people which make up a Pathological Narcissistic Space, being prestigious, reputable, or successful, owning property and status symbols (show-off).

All these sources, primary and secondary alike �?or rather the Narcissistic Supply that they provide �?are incorporated in a Narcissistic Pathological Space.

Question:

What are the functions of Narcissistic Supply in the narcissistic pathology?

Answer:

The narcissist internalises a "bad" object (typically, his mother) in his childhood. He develops socially forbidden feelings towards this object: hatred, envy, and aggression. These feelings reinforce the narcissist's self-image as bad and corrupt. Gradually he develops a dysfunctional sense of self-worth. His self-confidence and self-image become unrealistically low and distorted.

In an effort to repress the "bad" feelings, the narcissist is also forced to suppress the good emotions intertwined with them. His aggression is channelled to fantasies or to legitimate outlets (dangerous sports, gambling, reckless driving, compulsive shopping). The narcissist views the world as a hostile, unstable, unrewarding, unjust, and unpredictable place.

He defends himself by loving a completely controllable object (himself), by projecting to the world an omnipotent and omniscient False Self, and by turning others to functions or to objects so that they pose no emotional danger. This reactive pattern is what we call pathological narcissism.

To counter his demons the narcissist needs the world: its admiration, its adulation, its attention, its applause, even its penalties. The lack of a functioning personality on the inside is balanced by importing Ego functions and boundaries from the outside.

The Primary Narcissistic Supply reaffirms the narcissist's grandiose fantasies, buttresses his False Self and, thus allows him to regulate his fluctuating sense of self-worth. The Narcissistic Supply contains information which pertains to the "correctness" of the False Self, to its calibration, intensity and proper functioning. The Narcissistic Supply serves to define the boundaries of the False Self, to regulate its contents and to substitute for some of the functions normally reserved to a True, functioning, Self.

While it is easy to understand the function of the Primary Supply, the Secondary type is a more complicated affair.

The company of women and "doing business" are the two main Sources of Secondary Narcissistic Supply (SNSS). The narcissist mistakenly interprets his narcissistic needs as emotions. To him, the pursuit of a woman-SNSS, for instance, is what others call "love" or "passion".

As we said, the narcissist derives his Narcissistic Supply from PNSS and SNSS (Primary and Secondary Narcissistic Supply Sources). But this supply is perishable goods. The narcissist consumes it and has to replenish the supply. As is the case with other drug addictions, to produce the same effect, he is forced to increase the dosage as he goes.

While the narcissist uses up his supply, his partner serves as a silent (and admiring) witness to the narcissist's "great moments" and "achievements". The narcissist's female friend "accumulates" the narcissist's "grandeur" and "illustrious past". When Narcissistic Supply is low, she "releases" the accumulated supply (by reminding the narcissist of these moments of glory) and, thus, helps the narcissist to regulate his sense of self-worth.

This function �?of Narcissistic Supply accumulation and release �?is performed by all SNSS, male or female, inanimate or institutional. The narcissist's co-workers, bosses, colleagues, neighbours, and friends are all potential SNSS. They all witness the narcissist's past accomplishments and can remind him of them when new supply runs dry.

[In depth analyses of the mechanisms of Narcissistic Supply, its accumulation and regulation can be found here and here.]

Question:

Why does the narcissist devalue his Source of Secondary Narcissistic Supply?

Answer:

Narcissists are forever in pursuit of Narcissistic Supply. They are not aware of time, are not constrained by any behavioural consistency, "rules" of conduct or moral considerations. Signal to a narcissist that you are a willing source �?and he is bound to extract his supply from you. This is a reflex. He would have reacted absolutely the same way to any other source. If what is needed to obtain supply from you is intimations of intimacy �?he will employ them liberally.

Some Sources of Supply are ideal (from the narcissist's point of view): sufficiently intelligent, sufficiently gullible, submissive, reasonably (but not overly) inferior to the narcissist, in possession of a good memory (with which to regulate the flow of Narcissistic Supply), available but not imposing, not explicitly or overtly manipulative, interchangeable (not indispensable), not demanding (a fatalist to a degree), attractive (if the narcissist is somatic). In short: a Galathea-Pygmallion type.

But then, often suddenly and inexplicably, it is all over. The narcissist is cold, uninterested and remote.

ONE of the reasons is, as Groucho Marx put it, that the narcissist doesn't like to belong to a club which accepts him as a member. The narcissist devalues his Sources of Supply for the very qualities that made them such sources in the first place: their gullibility, their submissiveness, their (intellectual or physical) inferiority.

But there are many other reasons. For instance, the narcissist resents his dependence and by devaluing the object of dependence (his spouse, his employer, his colleague, his friend) he gets rid of the dissonance.

Yet another issue:

The narcissist perceives intimacy and sex as a threat to his uniqueness. Everyone needs sex and intimacy �?it is the great equaliser. The narcissist resents this equality. He rebels.

Sex and intimacy are usually also connected to past unresolved conflicts with important Primary Objects (parents or caregivers). They invoke these conflicts, encourage transference and provoke the onset of an approach-avoidance cycle.

Additionally, narcissists get tired of their sources. There is no mathematical formula, which governs this. It depends on numerous variables. Usually, the relationship lasts until the narcissist "gets used" to the source and its stimulating effects wear off OR until a better Source of Supply presents itself.

Question:

Could negative input be Narcissistic Supply (NS)?

Answer:

Yes. NS includes attention, fame, notoriety, adulation, fear, applause, approval. It is a mixed bag. If the narcissist gets attention �?positive or negative �?it constitutes NS. If he can manipulate people or influence them �?positively or negatively �?it qualifies as NS.

Even quarrelling with people constitutes NS. Perhaps not the fighting itself �?but the ability to influence other people, to induce feelings in them, to manipulate them emotionally, to make them do something or refrain from doing it.

NS releases libido (increases the sexual drive).

Question:

Does the narcissist want to be liked?

Answer:

Would you wish to be liked by your television set? To the narcissist, people are mere tools, Sources of Supply. If he must be liked by them in order to secure this supply �?he strives to make sure they like him. If he can only be feared �?he makes sure they fear him. He does not really care either way as long as he is being attended to. Attention �?whether in the form of fame or infamy �?is what it's all about. His world revolves around his constant mirroring. I am seen therefore I exist, sayeth the narcissist.

But the classic narcissist is also looking to get punished. His actions are aimed to elicit social or other opprobrium and sanctions. His life is a Kafkaesque ongoing trial and the sempiternity of the trial is in itself the punishment. A punishment (a reprimand, an imprisonment, an abandonment) serves to vindicate and validate the internal damning voices of his sadistic, ideal and immature Superego (really, his parents or other caregivers). They confirm his worthlessness. They relieve him from the burden of the inner conflict he endures while successful: the conflict between the gnawing sense of guilt and shame and the need to relentlessly secure Narcissistic Supply.

Question:

How does the narcissist treat his past Sources of Narcissistic Supply?

Answer:

One should be careful not to romanticise the narcissist. His remorse is always linked to fears of losing his sources.

Narcissists have no enemies. They have only Sources of Narcissistic Supply. An enemy means attention means supply. One holds sway over one's enemy. If the narcissist has the power to provoke emotions in you �?you are still a Source of Supply to him, regardless of WHICH emotions are provoked.

He seeks out his old Sources of Narcissistic Supply when he has absolutely no other NS Sources at his disposal. Narcissists frantically try to recycle their old and wasted sources in such a situation. But the narcissist would NOT do even this had he not felt that he could still successfully extract a modicum of NS from the old source (even to attack the narcissist is to recognise his existence and to attend to him!!!).

If you are an old Source of Narcissistic Supply, first, get over the excitement of seeing him again. It may be flattering, perhaps sexually arousing. Try to overcome these feelings.

Then, simply ignore him. Don't bother to respond in any way to his offer to get together. If he talks to you �?keep quiet, don't answer. If he calls you �?listen politely and then say goodbye and hang up. Indifference is what the narcissist cannot stand. It indicates a lack of attention and interest that constitutes the kernel of negative NS.

Much more in FAQ 64 and FAQ 25 in "Malignant Self Love �?Narcissism Revisited".

It was great working with you. Take care.

Sam