Sorry, my above post was a bit off topic answering movinon -- but regarding the lying -- I'm not so sure they believe their own lies.  And the reason I say that is, the story and lie will sometimes change.  So which lie are they believing.  I think they're more clever than that.  The only one they require to believe their lies is the listener. 

To themselves, they are never found out. Remember, when you call your N on lies, he will immediately begin focusing & attacking YOU. They turn the tables & make your destruction their focus, so they don't ever have to examine their lies.

 

And HMR, I don't think it's about not having social skills, I think it's a deliberate effort to thwart societal norms. XN's Dad, also a N, would go into stores & rip open packages of food, eat a bite or two, and then toss the opened package onto another shelf.. being extremely public and grandiose in even his movements to attract attention to his display. He & XN would also say extremely unacceptable things to people in public (call black people "gorillas" say "WHOA LOOK AT THAT NASTY THING!" to a fat person) directly to their faces, but always in a very public place. They enjoyed the fact that they were being so abrasive & abusive, that it would stun people into not calling them on it.

 

Oh, and he wouldn't have worn his cover (aka C**-cap) when flying, that would be a GIGANTIC no-no. He just found a way to work that into the conversation so he could use that particular word & enjoy the shrinking reaction of those around him.

bumpy, that makes sense considering the mental age issue with regard to the fact that this disorder stemmed form a very early age.

 

HMR I heard recently that the definition of the truth is whatever we can get people to believe..... I guess that's fairly grandiose and maybe lends to their justification?  I do believe that their pleasure stems from puling things off on us and they just don't want to admit the are lesser that the stories they tell regardless of what is true.

 

The don't think it hurts anyone and they don't care.

 

I too believe they enjoy the attention good and bad when they say inappropriate things.  He was not as likely to do this stuff in public as his daughter though.  She scolded him in front of a group of my friends when one of them told him they liked the grill he bought me.  She told him it was way too much money to spend on me and she was telling "mommy"  (the girl is 24).  She talked about his "hairy ass" in front of a group of people and one friend pulled me aside and asked how she even knew if his ass was hairy.  it was gross.

 

My kids are teenagers and were appauled by the Britney Spears remarks....they even knew better and were embarrassed that she did this in a restaurant.

 

They just feel they are above manners, respect and sometimes I think the lies stem from that and a need to feel like more than they are or will ever be.

 

 

Hmmmm....I'm thinking about what you all just said & I'm still thinking it's poor social skills.  Let me run a few more things past you.  We were at a restaurant, guests of another couple, and xN started complaining about the food.  I thought the food was fine, but even if I didn't, I would never have insulted my hosts by implying the food they were buying for me was not good enough.  Another time, my daughter's wedding, xN  was dancing with other women (which was fine, I was dancing with everyone, too), but just a few weeks ago, one of my friends he had danced with said "I wondered what was up with him, he held me very close when we were dancing.  And he also was dancing with someone else's wife, holding her very close as well, with her husband standing there watching."  My friend thought "odd social skills."  Or could anyone else venture a guess?  Trying to upset ME at my daughter's wedding?

HMR, I still say, ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION.  Just like w/ our kids, when they are not getting enough attention they will start acting out b/c negative attention is better than no attention at all!

 

He complains about the food because **everyone seems to be having a good time without his contribution. He needs to contribute something, positive OR negative.** Gee, if I complain, not only will they all be looking at me while I blab, they may console me for not having as delicious a meal as they enjoyed.. and they might secretly be impressed by my obviously high standards of dining, and wonder where I have eaten in the past that makes my palate so discerning.

 

He dances with other women so closely because **he knows they must want him, and he will send them back to their dates in a tizzy, all flustered because of his Rico Suave dancing and he'll be on their minds all night -- as he already has been, because of course, they want him.** He doesn't CARE if the husband notices. He is focused on WINNING and by holding her close, it appears as if he has WON because she certainly didn't tell him to stop (being a lady and in public, she doesn't want to cause a scene).

Sometimes I think that these wild lies are a gauge of how stupid we might be. 

 

They seem to confuse "stupid" with "trusting." 

 

 

Gloria

"and they might secretly be impressed by my obviously high standards of dining, and wonder where I have eaten in the past that makes my palate so discerning."

 

Ivy, HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!   Cracks me up.  What toddler idiots.

THe XN/P was really good at playing the role of the nice, polite guy in public but when we left an event or a party.... he talked about everyone like they were worthless, accussed me of flirting, believed all the men were looking at me.  he walked off of the dance floor at a club while dancing with me and left the club because he believed I was looking at the other men. 

 

It was odd..... he seemed so charming to everyone else but appreciated nothing people did for him.  He DID however, cancel going to dinner with people at the last minute (a friend's birthday)....went to a work event with me once and looked like a little kid in a suit.  He was SO uncomfortable.  i think because it was NOT all about him.  HE HATED meeting the other men I worked with and later accused me of sleeping with several of them. 

 

But in public situations he APPEARED modest.  His daughter was NOT like that.  She had him by the nose and compalined publically all the time. And they had what I would call an emotionally incestuous relationship.  I wonder how it would all go over if SHE knew the truth about him.  All she needs to do is google his full name and type in SEAL and the website will come up that shows him as an imposter. (I sometimes fantasize about this happening but would not notify her myself).  I believe in karma.

 

 

 

I do believe Ns lie so often that they start to believe their own lies.  And some Ns are just plain psychotic. So to them their dream world is their reality.  A relatively common comorbidity with the disorder it would appear.

 

Although my background is in the sciences, and labs and applied mathematics, it got to the point where I was not concerned with "reality" or the "truth" but much more so with N's perception of the truth.  I tried my best to understand and function in his imaginary world.  I always felt like I was on some sort of an acid trip, but for him everything was just "normal".

Momma,

 

Did you know it's against the law now to wear the uniform and medals if they never served?  My XN/P is on the pownetwork website (name, photo and his lies) listing him as a phony and that he could be arrested for impersonating a special forces officer.

 

He SWEARS to it still.  His records show he was discharged after four months.  On the form it states under courtmartial record "not available"  Does that mean there was one?  Or does it mean there may not have been?  I'm dying to know why he was kicked out.  When I finally confronted him with his lies he told me to ask his daughter the truth "she knows".  I asked him why he wouldnt tell me to ask his sister or someone who was actually alive at that time.... he lies and she will swear to it !!!

 

Someone at the network told me he was probably a problem child and they just got rid of him before he graduated fro basic training.  What do you think?