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Divorce/Custody : legal question
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 Message 1 of 11 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknamemonkeyface187  (Original Message)Sent: 19/08/2008 4:01 p.m.
My son's father (ex N) approached my husband almost a year ago and told him that he would sign the child over for adoption if i forgive the arrears he owes me (over 25,000)  This was brought up by the ex N as a solution to his financial problems. 
I have been thinking about it and have contacted an attorney.  I can have the adoption done and not forgive the arrears as the ex N has not seen his son in almost 9 years.  This was his choice i had never tried to keep him from our son.
He had a relative try and contact me with a sob story.  I didn't reply because i want no contact with him. 
Now he is hinting that he is worth fighting for.  After all these years.  I don't know if it is just a threat or not, but he only visited him a hand full of times.  He never complied with the visitation all those years ago (supervised by court order) he is a stranger to my son. 
If it isn't a threat what kind of visitation could he get?  He hasn't seen him in almost 9 years and hasn't spoken with him in 5 years.
 
Monkey


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 Message 2 of 11 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknameaegis37Sent: 21/08/2008 5:27 a.m.
Hi monkey,
If I'm reading this correctly, and I might not be...
What you are describing is baby selling at the least. Another name for it is human trafficking. Someone giving a child away to erase a debt is the same as being paid money up front. The seller is still getting a dollar value for the baby. Money is only one method of earning something.
Trading this for that also translates to dollars.
In this case, the buyer is offering to drop debts worth $$.
Which means the potential seller is giving the buyer the baby in exchange for a certain dollar value. It's wrong, immoral, an possibly even illegal...a felony even.Now I'm not saying your participating in that...but your XN is definitely at leat -trying- to. He wants to -buy a baby-?!?!
I'm so glad you an your new DH didnt swallow the worm....See...I you had agreed he coulda gone to court for custody claiming you were trying to sell the baby an were therefore unfit. He' just either leave out or lie about him being the instigator.
Please hold to your ethical grounds!
I will be praying for you bigtime.
You be cautious, if your XN is anything like mine he is always tryin to get you to do something that he can take to court cuz your a 'bad mom'
sorry if this is an adamant post ...esp from someone who's not been here long but...
my gosh!
I really really dont know what else to say...
tcby,
~aegiss

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 Message 3 of 11 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknamemonkeyface187Sent: 22/08/2008 5:57 p.m.
I am sticking to my ethical grounds.  No one ever asked him to sign over his parental rights.  No one has ever said anything about adoption except him.  He doesn't want to pay child support.  He owes a lot of money in back child support.  To him this is his way of saying "I know you love him and i will give him to you if you let me off the hook with the child support."
I never thought of it that way as him trying to make me look like an unfit parent.  Good point and I thank you for bringing that to my attention. 
I am not a bad mom.  I have taken care of that child and encouraged a relationship between them.  He (Ndad) has never given any effort to be a part of his life no matter how easy i tried to make things for him.
I have contacted my attorney.  I told him if he doesn't want to be his father anymore and wants to sign over his rights then my husband would gladly adopt him.  I will not forgive the back child support.  In no way have we EVER tried to use my son as leverage.  
 
Monkey
 

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 Message 6 of 11 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknameivyalmightySent: 24/09/2008 2:17 p.m.
Monkeyface,
 
Don't worry, it's not illegal or any sort of black market baby trade. My DH actually did this when he adopted his ex-wife's children.. the biodad had the choice of being taken to court for like $8K in arrears (and going to jail) or just allowing DH to adopt the children, and he chose to let DH adopt the children.
It is not uncommon. Although, it is always up to the judge whether he is actually relieved of the $25K obligation. Surrendering parental rights doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have to pay CS.. that is decided by the courts.
 
However, since he has had no contact with your son in such a long time, you could terminate his rights WITHOUT his permission at this point. Most states it is 12 months w/ no attempt at contact, and the parent doesn't stand a chance. Some states are a little more liberal, but heck, it's been five years. He won't be able to do a darn thing. Just have him served. He can show up in court, but it'll be useless. You just come armed w/ your phone records & anything you have to prove that biodad DID have your contact info all this time.
 
We're going through the same thing w/ my dd's biodad right now. DH is adopting my dd's (lol, he has a bad habit of adopting kids!)... the biodad has never paid a $$ in child support, and it's only been 8 mo since he hasn't contacted them.. but that combined w/ 4 prior years of not a single visit, no presents, no b-day cards, only the occasional hoovering phone call.. and even in liberal CA, it's an open & shut adoption/termination case.

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 Message 7 of 11 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknameivyalmightySent: 24/09/2008 2:20 p.m.
And, he wouldn't even get visitation. Get your son to a counselor & have your lawyer argue for the court that at this point, with n/c for such a long time, it would cause more harm than healing for your son to start visitation after such a long period of ABANDONMENT.
 
Additionally, if the biodad has moved out of the state you guys are living in, before you & son left that state, then that is called abandonment & combined w/ the lack of CS, also grounds for termination of parental rights.

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Sent: 25/09/2008 3:40 a.m.
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 Message 9 of 11 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknameaegiss1Sent: 25/09/2008 3:44 a.m.
Oh,
and I wasn't even thinking in terms of Monkey doing something awful like baby selling... Just to be sure folks know that... I was just seeing all the hideous ways an N could twist it. Like I said... bad bad knee jerk reaction on my part...
Maybe I should delete the original response...I'd hate anyone to think I meant bad bout Monkey or anyone suffering at the hands of an N... =(
~aegiss

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 Message 10 of 11 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknameaegiss1Sent: 25/09/2008 3:47 a.m.
Ivy..
Also..
"DH is adopting my dd's (lol, he has a bad habit of adopting kids!)... "
He sounds awesome! It's so great you found a great guy! Um...
Does he have a brother?? JK =)
~a

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 Message 11 of 11 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknameivyalmightySent: 25/09/2008 2:36 p.m.
aegiss,
 
Once you gave the background, I fully understood where you were coming from.. but boy, would've never made that connection w/o your story to complete the picture! I think you should leave it, as a warning.
 
Yes, DH is stinkin' wonderful. He has 4 kids (2 adopted, 2 bio) plus my two (he's working on adopting)... sometimes  I wish he were a little less generous, w/ all the child support we pay out  ..  but not really, it's pretty great to see a dad who doesn't think twice about paying it, doesn't fight it... and voluntarily paying for college after CS ends, too. But no brothers, just two awesome sisters.
 
Yep about abandonment too. Once the non-custodial parent leaves the state, you can claim abandonment. Of course, it has to be for less-than-honorable reasons, not because they got a great job just a few hours further away, that would allow them to pay more CS and support the kid & custodial parent better. Also, if the non-cust. parent leaves the state first, that gives the cust. parent free reign to move pretty much wherever the heck they want, w/o having to worry about a felony kidnapping or anything. It's the one-two punch of physical abandonment combined w/ financial abandonment (not paying CS) that seals the deal.
 
I learned all this when going through my separation. I couldn't leave the state b/c non-paying N-biodad wouldn't.. but he left after a few months, and it totally changed the picture.

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